| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Lift technology - is it on its way? Thread poster: Wojciech_ (X)
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 09:59
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| Gobbling up new features versus gobbling up whole programs | Aug 22, 2015 |
Michael Beijer wrote:
A pity. Wonder when they will gobble up memoQ, Wordfast and Across too.
They just gobbled up the feature, not a whole program. I doubt if SDL will want to gobble up memoQ, Wordfast, etc, because those programs don't offer anything new that Trados doesn't have yet. Lift is something that Trados didn't have, so they lifted it. Why develop something from scratch if you can buy it? Anyway, the method used by Lift isn't rocket science... it just requires a lot of development.
The important question is... what do we call this feature? We can't call it "lifting" (that's a trade name). Perhaps simply "target subsegment matching"? What does Trados call it?
| | | | Wojciech_ (X)
Poland
Local time: 09:59
English to Polish
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TOPIC STARTER | Wondering... | Aug 22, 2015 |
Not quite sure how it works in Studio 2015.
Dominique, from what I can see in the video, this was implemented in Studio 2014, but I guess it was just experimental and not released to the public. In the video you can see a special window showing subsegment matches together with their translations. AFAIK, such window is unavailable in Studio 2015 (pity).
Samuel, you might be right - perhaps it's not a rocket science, but earlier nobody was able to produce a properly work... See more Not quite sure how it works in Studio 2015.
Dominique, from what I can see in the video, this was implemented in Studio 2014, but I guess it was just experimental and not released to the public. In the video you can see a special window showing subsegment matches together with their translations. AFAIK, such window is unavailable in Studio 2015 (pity).
Samuel, you might be right - perhaps it's not a rocket science, but earlier nobody was able to produce a properly working algorithm/method and now it seems to be possible.
One advantage of this is certainly the fact that now translations of subsegments can be fed via Autosuggest, because Studio "knows" which part of the segment it is supposed to suggest to you.
I suppose Deep Miner in Deja Vu does something similar, but I can only guess.
[Edited at 2015-08-22 10:34 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-08-22 10:34 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | As I said before... | Aug 24, 2015 |
pro-lingua wrote:
Not quite sure how it works in Studio 2015.
... it has been implemented as additional AutoSuggest options in 2015. The developer of Lift did this for Studio 2015. The implementation you see on the video was experimental and the plugin was developed this way so you could see the way it worked.
Regards
Paul
SDL Community Support
| | | | | It's called... | Aug 24, 2015 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
The important question is... what do we call this feature? We can't call it "lifting" (that's a trade name). Perhaps simply "target subsegment matching"? What does Trados call it?
... AutoSuggest in Studio.
These are all new options introduced in Studio 2015 and based on this technology.
Regards
Paul
SDL Community Support
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SDL Community wrote:
... AutoSuggest in Studio.
But doesn't that imply that you already have to know the translation of the subsegment? At least the first letter(s) of it? And that it doesn't work if you don't?
Cheers,
Hans
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:59
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
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| Lift for Dummies. | Aug 24, 2015 |
SDL Community wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
The important question is... what do we call this feature? We can't call it "lifting" (that's a trade name). Perhaps simply "target subsegment matching"? What does Trados call it? ... AutoSuggest in Studio. These are all new options introduced in Studio 2015 and based on this technology. Regards Paul SDL Community Support
Hi Paul,
If you ever have some time to spare, one of your great posts on your blog about this would be nice:
From Lift to AutoSuggest in three easy steps.
or
Lift for Dummies.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 09:59
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
SDL Community wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
The important question is... what do we call this feature? We can't call it "lifting" (that's a trade name). Perhaps simply "target subsegment matching"? What does Trados call it? It's called AutoSuggest in Studio.
More precisely, it's not called anything, but is simply integrated into the autosuggest feature with a check box called "fuzzy translation memory matching".
Do you have a video that demonstrates this feature? In the original Lift video, the feature automatically finds and lists matches, but does not suggest them at the cursor.
[Edited at 2015-08-24 11:23 GMT]
| | | | Wojciech_ (X)
Poland
Local time: 09:59
English to Polish
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TOPIC STARTER
Meta Arkadia wrote: SDL Community wrote:
... AutoSuggest in Studio. But doesn't that imply that you already have to know the translation of the subsegment? At least the first letter(s) of it? And that it doesn't work if you don't? Cheers, Hans
My thoughts exactly. If there were a dedicated window similar to the one in the video, the translator would know which letters he should start with in order to trigger the Autosuggest. Without it it's a lot of guessing, isn't it?
Anyway, kudoz for implementing it.
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kimjasper
Denmark
Local time: 09:59
Member (2006)
English to Danish
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| A dedicated window would be useful | Aug 24, 2015 |
... in order to validate how useful the match is and whether and how it is a 100% match or fuzzy match. The window could be implemented as a tab together with the windows for translation results, concordance search, messages etc.
| | | | | Static or dynamic? | Aug 24, 2015 |
Michael Beijer wrote:
Roy mentioned that it sounds like the Deep Miner in Déjà Vu.
Michael
If so, will the function be dynamic (as in Deja Vu, where suggestions will be generated on the fly = within the same session) or static and needs to be activated/trained for each new run, like Autosuggest (SDL) or Muse (memoQ)?
| | | | Wojciech_ (X)
Poland
Local time: 09:59
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | It's dynamic. | Aug 24, 2015 |
Matthias Brombach wrote: Michael Beijer wrote:
Roy mentioned that it sounds like the Deep Miner in Déjà Vu.
Michael If so, will the function be dynamic (as in Deja Vu, where suggestions will be generated on the fly = within the same session) or static and needs to be activated/trained for each new run, like Autosuggest (SDL) or Muse (memoQ)?
Dynamic. You get the results on-the-fly - no need to retrain it.
| | | | | Maybe this article from Nora Diaz... | Aug 25, 2015 |
pro-lingua wrote: Meta Arkadia wrote: SDL Community wrote:
... AutoSuggest in Studio. But doesn't that imply that you already have to know the translation of the subsegment? At least the first letter(s) of it? And that it doesn't work if you don't? Cheers, Hans My thoughts exactly. If there were a dedicated window similar to the one in the video, the translator would know which letters he should start with in order to trigger the Autosuggest. Without it it's a lot of guessing, isn't it? Anyway, kudoz for implementing it.
... will be helpful:
http://noradiaz.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/studio-2015-autosuggest-gets-even-better.html
She created a nice little video on this too showing how she organises her interface and can use the concordance window to see some of the things you are referring to. So not a "Lift" window but I think it's worth trying it before you start redesigning it! The solution we use has been implemented by the Lift developer as he works for SDL too
Regards
Paul
SDL Community Support
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| Lift - where we are with it | Aug 26, 2015 |
I’m the creator of Lift, now working for SDL, and I’m adding a post here to clear up any confusion in this thread and explain where we are. Let me first thank those of you taking an interest in Lift. It’s functionality I wanted ever since I started using CAT tools as a freelancer in 2004, so I’m glad other translators like the sound of it. Some of the posts here discuss the features available in existing CAT tools, which vendors name in confusing ways. I’ve categorised and proposed a t... See more I’m the creator of Lift, now working for SDL, and I’m adding a post here to clear up any confusion in this thread and explain where we are. Let me first thank those of you taking an interest in Lift. It’s functionality I wanted ever since I started using CAT tools as a freelancer in 2004, so I’m glad other translators like the sound of it. Some of the posts here discuss the features available in existing CAT tools, which vendors name in confusing ways. I’ve categorised and proposed a typology for them at http://www.jostrans.org/issue23/art_flanagan.php which you might find interesting.
@Roy Oestensen, you’re right to be sceptical about performance based on a demo video, but more extensive tests show Lift performing much better than DeepMiner. You can read more about those tests at http://www.kftrans.co.uk/lift/FillingInTheGaps.pdf . @Patrik Porter, you can use statistical MT as a kind of subsegment recall proxy, but 1. You need a big TM. 2. You have the problem of ‘data dilution’. 3. Proposals can be less accurate due to the way MT systems construct rather than recall 4. You lose context for the recalled fragment. I looked at these and other problems in detail in my PhD thesis.
@Dominique Pivard, it’s true that I developed a plug-in for Studio 2014, but that was a separate component that wasn’t made publicly available, and wasn’t part of Studio 2014 itself. @Michael Beijer, I can understand your concerns about technology acquisition, and I thought very carefully about the best thing to do with the technology. Since Studio 2009, Trados Studio has for me been the highest-quality CAT tool on the market by far. (I chose not to use earlier SDL products; I didn’t find them as good.) I’m sure that the way to get Lift to the most translators, with the best user-interface and performance, is to make it part of Trados Studio. This doesn’t have to be bad for competition; I hope other vendors will develop similar features and ‘raise the bar’ for everyone.
Studio 2015 contains some great new AutoSuggest functionality as mentioned in some of the posts here, but it doesn’t yet contain Lift technology. Although SDL acquired Lift before releasing Studio 2015, new features/technology don’t get hastily added in and rushed out. As well as working as a translator, I’ve worked as a software developer in several places and seen many others, and while nowhere is perfect, I’ve found software development here at SDL to be very, very professional and polished, from software architecture through to UX design – and so getting new technology right takes time. The Lift prototype shown working in Studio 2014 only supported 4 languages, and although the ‘engine’ is language-independent, we do need to bring together certain per-language resources so as to support a more professionally-useful range of languages, and we have to run a lot of performance tests to get the best resource combinations. Some new subsegment recall features will be available quite soon (specifically, what I call ‘TM-TDB’ recall in the paper at http://www.jostrans.org/issue23/art_flanagan.php), while more advanced Lift functionality will take longer, perhaps to be available in 2016.
I hope that clarifies where we’re at with Lift …
[Edited at 2015-08-26 12:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Wojciech_ (X)
Poland
Local time: 09:59
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Now it's clear | Aug 26, 2015 |
I'm very happy that Mr. Flanagan has replied in this forum to clear the doubts regarding the technology.
So, in fact, Lift hasn't yet been introduced, but I believe we all very much look forward to it.
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... somebody should tell ATRIL reading this post
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