Strange tag error in SDL Studio 2011 when trying to create target version of file
Thread poster: Max Hessler
Max Hessler
Max Hessler  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:23
English to German
Jan 18, 2012

Hi friends,

I justed completed a 30000 word translation if a Framemaker 10 file (*MIF) in SDL Trados Studio 2011. When I tried to create the file in the target language I receive the following error:

"The 'para' start tag on line 1 does not match the end tag of 'cf'. Line 1, position 407199."

This obviously relates to the special tag at the top (as well at the end) of the file, containing the file name of the *.mif file. One doesn't even have access to this
... See more
Hi friends,

I justed completed a 30000 word translation if a Framemaker 10 file (*MIF) in SDL Trados Studio 2011. When I tried to create the file in the target language I receive the following error:

"The 'para' start tag on line 1 does not match the end tag of 'cf'. Line 1, position 407199."

This obviously relates to the special tag at the top (as well at the end) of the file, containing the file name of the *.mif file. One doesn't even have access to this kind of tag, so I don't see what I could do wron here.
Today I entered a support ticked at SDL, but they simply replied they can't help because I don't have a software maintenance agreement with them (for at least 200€!!).
I found in this forum that someone else on proz.com had exactly the same problem, but there is no solution in her forum entry. Anyone out there who knows how to deal with this error?

Thanks!
Max
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Jerzy Czopik
Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:23
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Does the error occur just in one single file? Jan 18, 2012

Or are more files engaged?

Please try to open the untranslated mif file, which creates problems and translate just one or two sentences in the middle of the file. Try to produce target. If this works, try to start translating and save target every 10-20 segments. This way you could be able to separate the segment which causes problems, if any.
If however the whole file creates problems, maybe you try to save it in a different MIF version. For example you could also run the pro
... See more
Or are more files engaged?

Please try to open the untranslated mif file, which creates problems and translate just one or two sentences in the middle of the file. Try to produce target. If this works, try to start translating and save target every 10-20 segments. This way you could be able to separate the segment which causes problems, if any.
If however the whole file creates problems, maybe you try to save it in a different MIF version. For example you could also run the process via S-Tagger for Framemaker, if the file is MIF 8. As the filter there works completely different from the filter in Studio, this might help.

Another question: do you translate any special elements in FM or do you use just th default filter settings?

And as for the PSMA: I do have it and I would never want to resign. This 200 EUR per year are very good invested money. You not only get help, and this very fast, but als are entitled to all upgrades for free within the PSMA period.
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Max Hessler
Max Hessler  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:23
English to German
TOPIC STARTER
Yes just a single file Jan 19, 2012

Dear Jerzy,

thanks for your help.

Well, in my opinion the single file is simply too big (30K words) to try your suggested method, might be useful for smaller files (probably the size of the file is the problem). I decided to save it as a MIF v7 and do the whole thing in Trados 2007 which worked quite good (after exporting the Studio 2011 entries). Still I find it annoying they are not prepared to help like they did in the past. It's their software, not mine and they sel
... See more
Dear Jerzy,

thanks for your help.

Well, in my opinion the single file is simply too big (30K words) to try your suggested method, might be useful for smaller files (probably the size of the file is the problem). I decided to save it as a MIF v7 and do the whole thing in Trados 2007 which worked quite good (after exporting the Studio 2011 entries). Still I find it annoying they are not prepared to help like they did in the past. It's their software, not mine and they sell it for quite a good price.
Honestly, for me it's not worth having a >200 € SW maintenance agreement. I need their support maybe only every 4 years or so, but of course your situation maybe completely different. Also, they should know about such SW issues to improve their application.
I'm glad I still have SDL Trados 2007 installed -- still have to switch to it from time to time, because SDL Studio doesn't work as expected (although I prefer the Studio version over the Workbench/TagEditor combination). By the way, I'm not a Trados hater, I've been working with it for years and appreciate it. Actually the best and most stable translation environment tool I know was developed by a local translation agency, but unfortunately they don't sell it as stand-alone tool for freelancers....

Thanks anyway & Cheers,
Max

(not sure what you meant by "special elements" in FM, probably elements specific to certain FM versions?)
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Jerzy Czopik
Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:23
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
The file was MIF8? Jan 19, 2012

What I would have done is processing the file in S-Tagger, then taking the TTX into Studio, translating there (if you have the Pro version, you could have used PerfectMatch) and then processing the resulting ttx in S-Tagger again.
It would be interesting to know, if the unprocessed MIF does save back as such from Studio, when just opened there, then having few sentences translated, and attempted to produce target.
Again, do you translate any special items or have kept just the defaul
... See more
What I would have done is processing the file in S-Tagger, then taking the TTX into Studio, translating there (if you have the Pro version, you could have used PerfectMatch) and then processing the resulting ttx in S-Tagger again.
It would be interesting to know, if the unprocessed MIF does save back as such from Studio, when just opened there, then having few sentences translated, and attempted to produce target.
Again, do you translate any special items or have kept just the default settings in the filter for FrameMaker?
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Stanislav Pokorny
Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 14:23
English to Czech
+ ...
MIF problems Jan 19, 2012

Hello Max and Jerzy,
I can confirm recent problems with MIF files in Studio 2011 SP1. I have a new client who sends between 4 and 10 large MIFs every month. The problems begin right in the project preparation which stops at the "Word Count" batch task and throws an error. Strangely enough, all files open over "Open Document", but then either cannot be saved, or saved as targets. I receive all kinds of error messages: tag errors (while there are of course none), system out of memory etc.... See more
Hello Max and Jerzy,
I can confirm recent problems with MIF files in Studio 2011 SP1. I have a new client who sends between 4 and 10 large MIFs every month. The problems begin right in the project preparation which stops at the "Word Count" batch task and throws an error. Strangely enough, all files open over "Open Document", but then either cannot be saved, or saved as targets. I receive all kinds of error messages: tag errors (while there are of course none), system out of memory etc.

I tried the S-Tagger roundtrip already a month ago and this is working, except that:
1. S-Tagger has traditionally problems with Czech diacritics (yes, all language settings are correct) and cannot deal with characters such as "ě, š, č, ř, ž, ť, and ď);
2. The S-Tagger roundtrip only works for MIF v.7 and earlier files, so I have to convert v.9 to v.7, potentially losing some document properties that are not backwards compatible;
3. The entire process with S-Tagger could be fine if I had one such file in three months, but is not acceptable with ten files a month.

Paul Filkin confirmed that he had the same problem with my MIFs, but he could get the target out. Also, and this is most important, he confirmed that the current development build can handle those MIFs without any problems.

So I hope that the new build will be released ASAP; I certainly wouldn't like to lose that client (an excellent one, BTW).
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Max Hessler
Max Hessler  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:23
English to German
TOPIC STARTER
issues resolved (almost) Jan 22, 2012

Hi friends,

finally the Trimble support person hast returned my files (original .mif file and bilingual SDLXLIFF file). He found two segments that caused the problem, but couldn't say why they caused it. The returned file SDLXLIFF file now worked fine, I could create the target *mif file without problems. He suggested that probably some hidden character had been indroduced while translating.
Also he recommended to return the state of the target segment to the source and transl
... See more
Hi friends,

finally the Trimble support person hast returned my files (original .mif file and bilingual SDLXLIFF file). He found two segments that caused the problem, but couldn't say why they caused it. The returned file SDLXLIFF file now worked fine, I could create the target *mif file without problems. He suggested that probably some hidden character had been indroduced while translating.
Also he recommended to return the state of the target segment to the source and translate around the tags in my SDLXLIFF file (not the one I had sent in). When I did this, strangely I received a warning that the order of the tags was changed (although it was not the case!). So I still couldn't create the target .mif file. That was 2 days ago. Today when I tried this again it worked fine. Hm, so I'm a little puzzled. What is strange that the tag verification tool didn't find the error in the first place and I'm still waiting for a reply from the support person how they managed to find the segments at fault. Hope they'll give a hint.
No Jerzy, the file was MIF 10, and yes, saving the untranslated file worked ok (also with only a few segments translated). When I used S-Tagger I had to save it as Mif 7, because in Framemaker you can't save as v8. Yes, I used standard settings and I still don't know what you mean by special elements?
Stanislav, exactly the fact that some features may get lost when saving a FM 10 file as v7 was the reason why I was a little reluctant to translate the whole thing in SDL Trados 2007 in the first place. So if that happened the client will have to bother with it now. So like you I'm hoping that these kinds of bugs will be resolved with future releases.

Cheers,
Max
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gfichter
gfichter  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:23
English
+ ...
another approach Jan 22, 2012

I am glad that the problem is solved, but I'd like to make a suggestion anyway.

If we start with the assumption that you didn't do anything wrong, and that the problem could be a bug in Trados, it could be quite easy to solve it outside of Trados. This is what I did with an unrelated tag problem in a Polish project, and there were no side effects.

From the error message and your first post, it seems that the problem is the "para" tag, and the fact that it is not matche
... See more
I am glad that the problem is solved, but I'd like to make a suggestion anyway.

If we start with the assumption that you didn't do anything wrong, and that the problem could be a bug in Trados, it could be quite easy to solve it outside of Trados. This is what I did with an unrelated tag problem in a Polish project, and there were no side effects.

From the error message and your first post, it seems that the problem is the "para" tag, and the fact that it is not matched by a "/para" tag. You state that this is a top-level tag, so the missing tag would be at or near the end of the file. So here's what you can do:

Open the file in a text editor. You may need to use Wordpad if the file shows up as one long string, because the file is in Unix format (no carriage returns). The error message reflects this as the entire file seems to be on line 1 ("Line 1, position 407199.") I use UltraEdit, but there are lots of other good text editors.

Find the para tag.

Go to the end of the file where you would expect to see the /para tag, and enter it as LESS-THAN-SIGN/paraGREATER-THAN-SIGN. The be safer, you could look at a good file (one that doesn't cause the problem) and see how that /para tag is entered. There is a chance that it is simply LESS-THAN-SIGN/GREATER-THAN-SIGN in the right place.

Test the file. If this doesn't work, try adding the closing /para tag right after the para tag, and see if that causes errors. For example, LESS-THAN-SIGNparaGREATER-THAN-SIGNsomethingLESS-THAN-SIGN/paraGREATER-THAN-SIGN.

This is pretty quick-and-dirty, but considering the time you put into this it might be worth a shot next time something similar occurs. In my case, one of the tags starting with LESS-THAN-SIGNx- was garbled, and I just changed it to look like its neighbors. Problem solved.[Edited at 2012-01-22 18:51 GMT] - sorry, I'm having problems representing the html tags in this post.[Edited at 2012-01-22 18:55 GMT]

[Edited at 2012-01-22 18:59 GMT]
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Problem not solved yet Feb 8, 2012

I've been having the same problem with a MIF file (FM version 10) that does not want to convert. I have purchased the PSMA and the SDL Trados Technical Support has not been able to come up with a solution yet (3 weeks and counting).
I've also tried the suggestions here, opening the file in and editor application to find the paragraphs looking for the problem and have not had any luck.
Has anyone found a solution to this error yet?


 
Anninili
Anninili
Local time: 14:23
English to German
+ ...
Any solution for this "problem" found? Sep 24, 2012

Hai,

I came across this "feature/bug/whatever" from time to time, sometimes it resolved simply by redoing (i.e. re-translating) the files, but this time - and of course under time pressure - nothing seems to help.

I am working with Frame10 Mifs and SDL Studio 2011 SP1 on Windows 7, cannot install the SP2 because of another feature, and I am a little sceptic about installing SP2 Refresh (what a name ...) in the middle of my projects (not quite sure whether it would help
... See more
Hai,

I came across this "feature/bug/whatever" from time to time, sometimes it resolved simply by redoing (i.e. re-translating) the files, but this time - and of course under time pressure - nothing seems to help.

I am working with Frame10 Mifs and SDL Studio 2011 SP1 on Windows 7, cannot install the SP2 because of another feature, and I am a little sceptic about installing SP2 Refresh (what a name ...) in the middle of my projects (not quite sure whether it would help anyway...).

I had a look on the "Master FM file", the MIF file etc. I really, really cannot find any "problem" with the files. Okay the projects consists of some really large files, but they converted without any problem. The files causing "my" problem are smaller.

So if anyone has a tip/trick/whatever, I really would appreciate any comment.

Cheers,
Anneliese

[Edited at 2012-09-24 13:36 GMT]
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Paik Cook
Paik Cook  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:23
English to Korean
Studio 2011 Tag Error Jan 6, 2013

The strange tag error message often prohibits me from viewing the translation in the target language. Being not an expert, it is next to impossible to figure out what is causing this error. Besides, the Studio customer service will not even give you a number to call unless you buy a support package that is quite expensive. This tag error messages remain the single most important problem in using Studio 2011. There should be a way to BYPASS this error which we don't know and they will not tell yo... See more
The strange tag error message often prohibits me from viewing the translation in the target language. Being not an expert, it is next to impossible to figure out what is causing this error. Besides, the Studio customer service will not even give you a number to call unless you buy a support package that is quite expensive. This tag error messages remain the single most important problem in using Studio 2011. There should be a way to BYPASS this error which we don't know and they will not tell you either unless you pay them at least $250 to buy a support package.

SDL Trados Studio 2011 is a huge program to load and complex to navigate. By the way, as strange as it may sound, Studio 2011 will not display Korean characters in the target view if you have worked on MS Word 2003 - It has to be a docx file. It will not warn you either. So you will need to re-do the translation by saving the original source file in MS Word 2007.

It is quite a shame and sad that a program like SDL Trados has become the industrial standard simply because it started first. I am looking for every opportunity to test other products to avoid using this monstrous program.
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Roy OConnor (X)
Roy OConnor (X)
Local time: 14:23
German to English
A bug in the program Sep 26, 2014

This problem with tags in Framemaker MIF files is still prevalent in the latest version of Studio 2014. It shows up with condition tag pairs with the end tag being displaced into a format definition such as italic, bold, subscript, superscript, etc. This flags up tag errors/warnings and produces the error "The 'para' start tag on line 1 position xxx does not match the end tag of 'cf' line 1, position xxx" when an attempt is made to save the target file.

On submitting a support ticke
... See more
This problem with tags in Framemaker MIF files is still prevalent in the latest version of Studio 2014. It shows up with condition tag pairs with the end tag being displaced into a format definition such as italic, bold, subscript, superscript, etc. This flags up tag errors/warnings and produces the error "The 'para' start tag on line 1 position xxx does not match the end tag of 'cf' line 1, position xxx" when an attempt is made to save the target file.

On submitting a support ticket to SDL a quick response was received, saying that a bug in the software is present and that the matter is in the hands of the development dept. We will have to wait for the next update.

Sometimes you can obtain correct tag positioning by disabling the tag check error reporting for the MIF file type. In certain cases confirming the segment forces the tag displacement to reappear, but you should still be able to save the target file correctly. Of course, then your TM will not be updated for the affected segment.

A work-around can often be found, but only after hours of playing with settings, etc. All in all, not a very satisfactory situation.
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Identifying errors Mar 18, 2015

Like Max I think, the method we've used to identify errors is to restore source segments in small blocks depending on your file size (10/50/100 at one time), as long as the error ref number changes we are able to narrow down the "error zone" and identify the issue for sure. What it's puzzling is the fact the it's always been about tag problems that are not detected by tools Verification while working in Editor mode. More important, you need to fix these erros in TM as well, otherwise you risk to... See more
Like Max I think, the method we've used to identify errors is to restore source segments in small blocks depending on your file size (10/50/100 at one time), as long as the error ref number changes we are able to narrow down the "error zone" and identify the issue for sure. What it's puzzling is the fact the it's always been about tag problems that are not detected by tools Verification while working in Editor mode. More important, you need to fix these erros in TM as well, otherwise you risk to replicate the same issue in your next update. Hint, if you export your working TM into tmx format and open this in Studio (tmx plugin), then running the Verification again, you will succesfully spot the very same problematic sentences...
Cheers, Matteo
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Brent Pickering
Brent Pickering  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:23
French to English
Still no Studio fix for old tag bug in MIF files Jun 10, 2015

I am repeatedly having exactly the same conditional text tag problem since Roy said nine months ago that this old bug is in the hands of SDL's development dept. This bug really should have been fixed by now.

The workaround arrangement I have reached with an (amenable!) agency for regularly translating such files: I translate the MIF 12 files using Studio 2014 SP2, all updates installed to date, check them then send them to the agency which inserts the MIF conditional text tags using
... See more
I am repeatedly having exactly the same conditional text tag problem since Roy said nine months ago that this old bug is in the hands of SDL's development dept. This bug really should have been fixed by now.

The workaround arrangement I have reached with an (amenable!) agency for regularly translating such files: I translate the MIF 12 files using Studio 2014 SP2, all updates installed to date, check them then send them to the agency which inserts the MIF conditional text tags using MemoQ, which *does* handle MIF tags properly, I re-check the RTF files exported from MemoQ for review then return the checked review files to the agency for it to generate the target files. Wasted time for all.

A concrete response from SDL to this old bug is notably lacking - and I suspect it will remain in Studio 2105, based on this posting.

What a pity; with this one exception, I am pro-Studio.


Roy OConnor wrote:

This problem with tags in Framemaker MIF files is still prevalent in the latest version of Studio 2014. It shows up with condition tag pairs with the end tag being displaced into a format definition such as italic, bold, subscript, superscript, etc. This flags up tag errors/warnings and produces the error "The 'para' start tag on line 1 position xxx does not match the end tag of 'cf' line 1, position xxx" when an attempt is made to save the target file.

On submitting a support ticket to SDL a quick response was received, saying that a bug in the software is present and that the matter is in the hands of the development dept. We will have to wait for the next update.

Sometimes you can obtain correct tag positioning by disabling the tag check error reporting for the MIF file type. In certain cases confirming the segment forces the tag displacement to reappear, but you should still be able to save the target file correctly. Of course, then your TM will not be updated for the affected segment.

A work-around can often be found, but only after hours of playing with settings, etc. All in all, not a very satisfactory situation.
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RWS Community
RWS Community
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:23
English
Can I have an example or three? Jun 10, 2015

Hi Brent,

If you can share some files with me we can test and check. My email is below.

Regards

Paul
SDL Community Support
[email protected]


 
MKramer
MKramer
United States
Local time: 08:23
Conditional Text tags with formatting tags Jun 29, 2015

I JUST had this happen to me in a MIF v10 file in Studio 2011 (SP2). While I didn't want to go through the pain of re-translating the file, I was able to determine where my error was coming from. I found it was a combination of 2 things - quick place of tags and incorrect quick place of tags

In my file, there are a HUGE amount of tags, some for conditional text settings and others for bold (and many of them in the same segment).

My source segment looks like this (itali
... See more
I JUST had this happen to me in a MIF v10 file in Studio 2011 (SP2). While I didn't want to go through the pain of re-translating the file, I was able to determine where my error was coming from. I found it was a combination of 2 things - quick place of tags and incorrect quick place of tags

In my file, there are a HUGE amount of tags, some for conditional text settings and others for bold (and many of them in the same segment).

My source segment looks like this (italics = text in tags):
|cns open| The |cf bold open| LARGE DOG |cns closing| |cf bold closing| |cns open| ate the food very quickly. |cns closing|

In my target segment, I was having a tag error. So I removed all the tags and added them back in using QuickPlace (Ctrl+Alt+down). When I selected my translated text of "LARGE DOG", my opening tag was the cf bold tag, like it was supposed to be, but my closing tag was the cns. It looked like this (pretend this is translated):

The |cf bold open| LARGE DOG |cns closing| ate the food very quickly.

I then did a QuickPlace of the first "cns" tag, which in turn, added the closing cf tag:
|cns open| The |cf bold open| LARGE DOG |cns closing| |cf bold closing| ate the food very quickly.

I then added the remaining missing tags and then it worked. Later on in the document, I saw a few segments where I only had ONE set of tags - one was the open CF bold tag and the other was a closing CNS tag.

Oh my, sorry this got really long! In short, if you have a lot of tags, double check the tag TYPE to make sure they correspond and go together. F8 doesn't tell you this, unfortunately.

I hope this helps someone else!
Best, Mindy
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Strange tag error in SDL Studio 2011 when trying to create target version of file







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