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New choices in membership, and the largest ProZ.com campaign to date: "The Open Road"
Thread poster: Jared Tabor
Jared Tabor
Jared Tabor
Local time: 14:32
SITE STAFF
TOPIC STARTER
Partial membership is not the same as full membership Oct 24, 2016

Hi writeaway,

In the title of your post you ask, "So those of us with partial memberships will now have to pay nearly 2x as much for the same thing?"

A partial membership is not the same thing as full membership, though.

writeaway wrote:

I for one find the decision to eliminate partial memberships a regrettable one. And only those willing to sign up for life (and ostensibly beyond) with automatically renewable "membership fees" will be entitled to any discount. Or has that changed? What happens if someone becomes ill or passes away and hasn't told their loved ones to cancel their Proz payments? How many translators provide their family with a blow-by-blow account of their involvement in translator-related sites?


Auto-renewed subscriptions are a fairly common practice now, and they are designed to keep things simpler and easier than the "manual renewal" (which is still an option, if one prefers). One of the benefits of having an automatic subscription is that it costs less, yes. Cancelling a subscription is easy; every ProZ.com member can use the membership management page, http://www.proz.com/manage-membership to control which kind of subscription they have, to renew, cancel, etc. In the scenario you mention, since a subscription is maintained on a credit card, I believe what is often done is the credit card companies are contacted and payments can be stopped at that level, rather than individually for different services. Relatives or other loved ones of someone who is deceased do often contact ProZ.com staff to close out their online account.


I am also a bit taken aback by the out and out go-for-the-money attitude Proz is now openly presenting. Games, prizes, come-ons etc. What is this site turning into? What was once referred to as a community is now clearly just a customer base, for loyal and super-loyal customers. Others are being made to feel most unwelcome.


Regular ProZ.com membership campaigns have been held, for the most part bi-annually, since at least 2005. It is through these campaigns that ProZ.com has been able to bring membership to more people, which in turn comes back to benefit all members and anyone who uses the site without membership as well. This campaign, possibly the last campaign of this kind that will be done, has many of the features of past campaigns, as you mention, though the intent of this campaign is to go bigger, because the ProZ.com site team wants everyone to hear about it.


 
Jared Tabor
Jared Tabor
Local time: 14:32
SITE STAFF
TOPIC STARTER
Plus discount is for everyone, additional discount depending on the remainder of current membership Oct 24, 2016

jyuan_us wrote:

Hi Jared,

I saw this description about the Plus membership pre-registration: "As a current member, an additional discount may be applied at checkout based on the value of your remaining membership."

Would you clarify how much a current member should pay if he chooses to upgrade to the Plus membership?

In my understanding, it should be less than $149, which is the pre-registration price for new members. The renewing members should pay less than that because of the additional discount. Am I correct?


Hi jyuan_us,

If you are currently a member and are signing up for the Plus package, a discount may be applied to that, depending on the remaining membership you have, making the fee as low as 50 USD. This is automatically calculated in the payment process, and you will see it, if it applies, in the first step of the payment process. For example:

Plus_package_discount

If you have very little remaining membership there may be no discount applied, beyond the pre-registration discount, that is.

The 149 discount for the Plus package is for everyone until November 15. I would expect that, moving forward, and especially in the case of automatic subscriptions, the fees for membership will be flat and the price for both new and renewing members will be the same.


 
Jared Tabor
Jared Tabor
Local time: 14:32
SITE STAFF
TOPIC STARTER
Why offer pre-registration for the Plus service package? Oct 24, 2016

Hi Giovanni,

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

I don't quite get it why you are offering an early registration for something which is not finalised yet? Wouldn't make more sense to start the campaign once everything is crystal clear and all the options are in place? A bit baffled by this...



From the FAQ section on the membership page:


Why pre-sell the Plus package? Why not wait until it is publicly available?

Certain services which are planned for inclusion in the Plus package rely on there being a network of professionals available. It is our goal to have a group of members who have purchased the Plus package available right from the day it is first offered.


The campaign and the prize giveaways will continue after the November 15 release date of the Plus service package (though the pre-registration discount for that package won't).


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:32
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Thank you Oct 24, 2016

Jared Tabor wrote:
If you have very little remaining membership there may be no discount applied, beyond the pre-registration discount, that is.

The 149 discount for the Plus package is for everyone until November 15. I would expect that, moving forward, and especially in the case of automatic subscriptions, the fees for membership will be flat and the price for both new and renewing members will be the same.


Hi Jared,

Thanks a lot for your quick and clear explanation.


 
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 18:32
Member (2008)
English to Czech
SITE LOCALIZER
questions Nov 3, 2016

1) If I choose the "Plus" package, will I automatically became a member of TM Town? Or will an action be required on my end? If it is automatic, is it possible to opt-out from TM Town membership and still use "Plus" package?

2) "we can say that membership in one of the "external channels" alone, TM-Town, costs $144 and is inc
... See more
1) If I choose the "Plus" package, will I automatically became a member of TM Town? Or will an action be required on my end? If it is automatic, is it possible to opt-out from TM Town membership and still use "Plus" package?

2) "we can say that membership in one of the "external channels" alone, TM-Town, costs $144 and is included in the Plus package."
http://www.proz.com/professional-membership
What are the other "external channels"?

3) Is upgrade to "Plus", with the same overall subscription period as the initial subscription (no extension purchased), considered itself a renewal?

4) Are browniz discontinued completely, or only for certain "purchases"?

Thank you.
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Lincoln Hui
Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 01:32
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Downgrading membership Nov 4, 2016

If we purchased Plus package now but decide to move to standard membership later, what is the yearly cost?

 
Peter Leeflang
Peter Leeflang  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:32
Member (2014)
French to English
+ ...
So fundamentally a price increase plus attempt at cash flow acceleration? Nov 4, 2016

I'll have to wait to see if the early signup is worth my money.

This place is not cheap already and it is increasing in disvalues like more insolvent agencies and greater difficulty to post actual negative experiences in feedback.

I also doubt the story of there being less and less partial memberships, given the current economy and the fact that the extras that come with full instead of partial membership are not really needed for true professionals. The time spent on
... See more
I'll have to wait to see if the early signup is worth my money.

This place is not cheap already and it is increasing in disvalues like more insolvent agencies and greater difficulty to post actual negative experiences in feedback.

I also doubt the story of there being less and less partial memberships, given the current economy and the fact that the extras that come with full instead of partial membership are not really needed for true professionals. The time spent on those benefits is better spent on translating and maintaining relationships.

So we're really paying more for less and less.

Why can there not simply be a 'tit for tat' where we get more choice instead of less, so lesser packages (and again no options within them) and even lesser clarity of what those packages include) so THAT would incentivize us to pay more? We need a clear table that says what we buy not an expectation of blind faith, especially given that Nov 15 is near.

The feedback system is really one of two core value elements of your site and it is not going the way a translator needs it to go, but is instead making life harder for us, but we're expected to pay more for it. Same with the second core value part, the marketplace, which has not changed for ages and costs unnecessarily extra time for both translators and agencies as it lacks enough standardization. Translation agencies should for example be required to provide the translators with their desired payment terms not just voluntarily, but by default. We get way too many offers of agencies with problematic payment terms and then both agencies and translators waste unnecessarily a lot of time on a job quote that will not materialize because we are too far apart to negotiate.

Also, translation agencies and translators would be helped if there is much more clarity in what variant of a language an agency needs (not just requires as many PMs just are not aware of the issues of one variant vs another. Spanish is one, but also Dutch. Many of my customers get a Dutch translation that turns our to be Flemish Dutch, but they did not know of the important differences and have to either get the whole thing redone or have people like me correct it. Now these are examples of real values you guys could offer, that would of course not be free to create but nothing is free, at least not my money.

As to lotteries etc. that is not something that will incentivize serious translators and it also goes at our expense in the end since we foot the bill in our fees. Gambling is not what we want, but instead a reward for our professional effort, our use of our minds and time. If I need gambling I got to specialized sites for that.

For the moment I'm very skeptical we translators will get new benefits from this de facto price increase.

Peter

[Edited at 2016-11-04 09:14 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-11-04 09:15 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-11-04 09:16 GMT]
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Maggie WAKEFIELD
Maggie WAKEFIELD  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 18:32
French to English
+ ...
How (not) to make your customers feel they got a superb deal... Nov 4, 2016

... send an email to customers who renewed their subscription very recently, and invite them to purchase for $109 the exact same package that they have just purchased for $120.

$11 dollars is neither here nor there, but is it ever a clever idea to point out to your customers that they just paid $N+ for a $N package? If it was just a case of missing out on a special offer - fair enough, that's the way the cookie crumbles, special offers come and go; but if I've understood correctly t
... See more
... send an email to customers who renewed their subscription very recently, and invite them to purchase for $109 the exact same package that they have just purchased for $120.

$11 dollars is neither here nor there, but is it ever a clever idea to point out to your customers that they just paid $N+ for a $N package? If it was just a case of missing out on a special offer - fair enough, that's the way the cookie crumbles, special offers come and go; but if I've understood correctly this is not a special offer, it's "the price has gone down for everyone, all the time" - or rather, for everyone except those who paid a year's renewal recently.
I suppose the thinking is, those customers who have lost out will rush to sign up for the nebulous Plus package so as not to lose out again. Nope, didn't work for me.
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Fiona Grace Peterson
Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 18:32
Italian to English
Hit. Nail. Head. Nov 6, 2016

Peter Leeflang wrote:

I'll have to wait to see if the early signup is worth my money.

This place is not cheap already and it is increasing in disvalues like more insolvent agencies and greater difficulty to post actual negative experiences in feedback.

I also doubt the story of there being less and less partial memberships, given the current economy and the fact that the extras that come with full instead of partial membership are not really needed for true professionals. The time spent on those benefits is better spent on translating and maintaining relationships.

So we're really paying more for less and less.

Why can there not simply be a 'tit for tat' where we get more choice instead of less, so lesser packages (and again no options within them) and even lesser clarity of what those packages include) so THAT would incentivize us to pay more? We need a clear table that says what we buy not an expectation of blind faith, especially given that Nov 15 is near.

The feedback system is really one of two core value elements of your site and it is not going the way a translator needs it to go, but is instead making life harder for us, but we're expected to pay more for it. Same with the second core value part, the marketplace, which has not changed for ages and costs unnecessarily extra time for both translators and agencies as it lacks enough standardization. Translation agencies should for example be required to provide the translators with their desired payment terms not just voluntarily, but by default. We get way too many offers of agencies with problematic payment terms and then both agencies and translators waste unnecessarily a lot of time on a job quote that will not materialize because we are too far apart to negotiate.

Also, translation agencies and translators would be helped if there is much more clarity in what variant of a language an agency needs (not just requires as many PMs just are not aware of the issues of one variant vs another. Spanish is one, but also Dutch. Many of my customers get a Dutch translation that turns our to be Flemish Dutch, but they did not know of the important differences and have to either get the whole thing redone or have people like me correct it. Now these are examples of real values you guys could offer, that would of course not be free to create but nothing is free, at least not my money.

As to lotteries etc. that is not something that will incentivize serious translators and it also goes at our expense in the end since we foot the bill in our fees. Gambling is not what we want, but instead a reward for our professional effort, our use of our minds and time. If I need gambling I got to specialized sites for that.

For the moment I'm very skeptical we translators will get new benefits from this de facto price increase.

Peter


 
Selcuk Akyuz
Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 20:32
English to Turkish
+ ...
I have full membership until 2021 Nov 7, 2016

I have full membership until 2021 and really don't know what to do now. Upgrade to get a CAT tool? The name of the CAT tool is not announced yet but I guess which one it is, and it will be a good investment for sure. But then how much will I pay, 5 x 50 USD? Or 50 USD for my first year (discount) and 4 x 149 for the following 4 years? I will wait and see.

 
Meta Arkadia
Meta Arkadia
Local time: 00:32
English to Indonesian
+ ...
Educated guess? Nov 7, 2016

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:
The name of the CAT tool is not announced yet but I guess which one it is, and it will be a good investment for sure.


I suppose it will have to be either cross-platform, or web-based. Coincidentally, one of ProZ relatively new staff members developed a web-based tool. Never tried it. And I think I know what CAT tool you refer to. An excellent cross-platform tool indeed, but my money is on Kevin.

Cheers,

Hans


 
Robert Rietvelt
Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:32
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
Plus Package + TM-Town Nov 7, 2016

@Jared

I did some translation work for the TM-Town website, and earned about 2.5 years (free????) membership and I am already working with about 8 different CAT-tools (on- and offline). So, could you please give me a reason why I should upgrade my Proz membership?

[Edited at 2016-11-07 08:42 GMT]


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 18:32
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Where does it say "CAT tool"? Nov 7, 2016

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:
Upgrade to get a CAT tool? The name of the CAT tool is not announced yet but I guess which one it is, and it will be a good investment for sure.


Apparently there is a free CAT tool somewhere, but I can't find any mention of it. Where is it mentioned?


 
Richard Purdom
Richard Purdom  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 17:32
Dutch to English
+ ...
easier for who? Nov 7, 2016

Jared Tabor wrote:


Auto-renewed subscriptions are a fairly common practice now, and they are designed to keep things simpler and easier


Nothing helps insurance companies, banks, building societies etc. increase profits more than the lethargy and downright inertia of customers who once signed up to a particular account/policy/membership which initially appears to offer benefits will just stick with it, ignoring newer and better offers which will entice the next generation of users/used.

I understand proz is not a charity, and neither am I which is why I'm not a member, but please be a bit more honest about it. What writeaway said is very valid, how many subscriptions to websites/gyms/clubs/insurance policies etc. etc. do we have to deal with if someone goes 'offline' in this age of automatic renewal??


 
Alison MacG
Alison MacG  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:32
German to English
+ ...
CAT tool Nov 7, 2016

Samuel Murray wrote:

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:
Upgrade to get a CAT tool? The name of the CAT tool is not announced yet but I guess which one it is, and it will be a good investment for sure.


Apparently there is a free CAT tool somewhere, but I can't find any mention of it. Where is it mentioned?


Scroll down to Compare Service Package Options
Then to "Basket" of goods and services from ProZ.com partners
where ? leads to: Includes at least one CAT tool.


 
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