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Complimentary TM-Town membership for ProZ.com members
Thread poster: Jared Tabor
Robert Rietvelt
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As logical as "stop praise and promotion". May 1, 2016

Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:

Use it or don't use it, but stop 'nagging'.

1) I think that is about as logical or meaningful as if someone said "stop praise and promotion". Either anyone can say what they want (and others can read, reflect or skip it as they wish), or no one can say anything.

2) "don't use it" would indeed be a nice solution to various concerns, but if I or someone else don't use TM Town, it unfortunately doesn't eliminate the perceived inherited TM Town proneness to confidentiality issues.


1) Indeed, just as logical as "If you don't want to get lungcancer, don't smoke". What is your point here exactly? Ofcourse everybody is allowed to express his/her opinion, but why, when you already know you do not want to make use of this new platform anyhow? Just to express your opinion? Well, be my guest.

2) A nice solution indeed, so use TM-Town, or don't use it, and if you don't use it because you don't trust it, what is the problem? Therefore, please stop "nagging".

[Edited at 2016-05-01 21:20 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-05-01 21:25 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-05-01 21:28 GMT]


 
Robert Rietvelt
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Then don't use it! May 1, 2016

Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:

Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
TM Town can be used (not with that intent, but with that result) to share confidential documents without client's approval - and anyone's joy or fear change nothing about such possibility. So won't the Deshi option etc. [Deshi completely removes the possibility of violating NDAs]

"Such possibility" referred to "TM Town can be used" (emhpasis on "can"), not to various methods offered by TM Town.
Deshi is one of the choices, not the only choice. This was already discussed here a few days ago.

If my client doesn't trust that I know what I am doing in terms of my ability to ensure none of their material gets into the wrong hands, they can find another translator.

The question is not if they trust you or not. The question is if they explicitly/implicitly approve or are made aware where are their materials going. What are they legitimate expectations. One of the things I agree on with Kevin is asking the client in case of unclarity - not assuming "yes" by default.

ProZ, now owning TM Town, endorses (and users who accepted the ProZ professional guidelines - I assume majority of active ProZ members did that - endorse the same) confidentiality of sensitive information and taking steps to protect that confidentiality. [TM-Town takes sufficient steps to protect the confidentiality of the data we provide it with.]

Confidentiality may be violated already by the fact that the data get into TM Town hands. It is not a matter of good or wrong hands. It is a matter of "foreign" hands. (And, before another comparison to e-mail is made - that is different through direct, conscious use of it by the client.)

If anyone violates confidentiality one way or another, that's indeed their own choice. (That is, if they are actually aware of violating it.) I only find it a bit unfortunate that a professional platform like ProZ promotes a solution which, in quite a straightforward manner, allows that to happen. [That's nonsense. Proz.com in no way "promotes a solution which, in quite a straightforward manner, allows [specific provisions in NDAs regarding data confidentiality to be breached] ..."

I nowhere talked about "specific provisions in NDAs regarding data confidentiality to be breached" so I'm not sure what are you trying to object to, apart for your own convenient construction.

ProZ promotes TM Town. TM Town allows uploading of TMs. This can mean violation of confidentiality. (With or without NDA - not having an NDA doesn't mean I can do whatever I want with the files. I think non-NDA cases are more prone to confidentiality violation, as NDAs usually specify the conditions, plus having any NDA may actually support caution.)

You say many things, but can you prove (citing relevant legislation in any of the countries I work in/via; The Netherlands, Belgium, the UK, etc.) that uploading my TMXs to a service such a TM-Town, which in my opinion has perfectly adequate security features in place (see links below), constitutes a violation of a specific NDA? I think not.

First, NDA is violated (or not) irrespective of legislation.
Second, you want me to evaluate a specific NDA without providing that specific NDA? Then yeah, you are right, I cannot do that. :)

Anyway, if that specific NDA would say that the use of online storages is allowed, or anything to the same effect, then it indeed wouldn't be violated. But if there is no such permission (including when there is no NDA), or if it is prohibited, then I see a problem. If you don't, so be it, I'm not requesting anyone to have the same view as me, and I don't need to label other views as wild or nonsensical just because they are different. :)

An example - let me quote from one NDA of mine:
"The party will not disclose any of the party’s Confidential Information to employees or to any third parties except to the party’s employees who have a need to know such information in connection with the Purpose and have agreed to abide by nondisclosure terms at least as protective of the party’s Confidential Information as those set forth herein.
Subject to the secrecy obligation is the Confidential Information, including but not limited to, all documents, materials, correspondence, drawings, data, articles etc. which already have been or will be provided to each party or of which each party gains knowledge of otherwise."

PS Again, security and confidentiality are two different things. If a translator invited a competitor of his client to an underground concrete bunker with top-grade security, they would be very safe - and at the same time the translator could share the documents for translation with the competitor.


I agree totally with Micheal, and for the rest, please see my last input.

[Edited at 2016-05-01 21:24 GMT]


 
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI
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the problem May 2, 2016

Robert Rietvelt wrote:
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
Use it or don't use it, but stop 'nagging'.

1) I think that is about as logical or meaningful as if someone said "stop praise and promotion". Either anyone can say what they want (and others can read, reflect or skip it as they wish), or no one can say anything.

2) "don't use it" would indeed be a nice solution to various concerns, but if I or someone else don't use TM Town, it unfortunately doesn't eliminate the perceived inherited TM Town proneness to confidentiality issues.


1) Indeed, just as logical as "If you don't want to get lungcancer, don't smoke". What is your point here exactly? Ofcourse everybody is allowed to express his/her opinion, but why, when you already know you do not want to make use of this new platform anyhow? Just to express your opinion? Well, be my guest.

My own non-use is no factor here. The mechanism of the TM Town service (ability to upload TMs) is publicly known to everyone, users and non-users, and TM Town offers that possiblity no matter if any particular user has an account there or not. I'm not sure what should make TM Town users more eligible to discuss that possiblity than non-users. (If I use your parallel, consequences of smoking are also not discussed only by smokers.)

If everybody is allowed to express their opinion as you confirm, I don't know why is should be a problem to respect (instead of repeatedly saying "stop") opinions that see an issue in that mechanism, just like you seem to respect opinions that don't see an issue there.

2) A nice solution indeed, so use TM-Town, or don't use it, and if you don't use it because you don't trust it, what is the problem? Therefore, please stop "nagging".

The problem is, in full, as follows:

a. I'm a paying member of ProZ.
b. ProZ owns TM Town and promotes it.
(So statistically I'm paying a fraction towards TM Town even if I don't use it.)
c. ProZ, through its professional guidelines, endorses confidentiality.
d. TM Town allows uploading of TMs which can mean violation of confidentiality.

(I see a problem already with point "d" itself, let alone combined.)

Will the problem with confidentiality or with the (potential) conflict of ProZ vs. TM Town principles cease to exist thanks to my non-use of TM Town? No.

Is that "nagging"? Maybe for you, but for some others not.


 
Michael Beijer
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your point d. is incorrect May 2, 2016

Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:

Robert Rietvelt wrote:
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
Use it or don't use it, but stop 'nagging'.

1) I think that is about as logical or meaningful as if someone said "stop praise and promotion". Either anyone can say what they want (and others can read, reflect or skip it as they wish), or no one can say anything.

2) "don't use it" would indeed be a nice solution to various concerns, but if I or someone else don't use TM Town, it unfortunately doesn't eliminate the perceived inherited TM Town proneness to confidentiality issues.


1) Indeed, just as logical as "If you don't want to get lungcancer, don't smoke". What is your point here exactly? Ofcourse everybody is allowed to express his/her opinion, but why, when you already know you do not want to make use of this new platform anyhow? Just to express your opinion? Well, be my guest.

My own non-use is no factor here. The mechanism of the TM Town service (ability to upload TMs) is publicly known to everyone, users and non-users, and TM Town offers that possiblity no matter if any particular user has an account there or not. I'm not sure what should make TM Town users more eligible to discuss that possiblity than non-users. (If I use your parallel, consequences of smoking are also not discussed only by smokers.)

If everybody is allowed to express their opinion as you confirm, I don't know why is should be a problem to respect (instead of repeatedly saying "stop") opinions that see an issue in that mechanism, just like you seem to respect opinions that don't see an issue there.

2) A nice solution indeed, so use TM-Town, or don't use it, and if you don't use it because you don't trust it, what is the problem? Therefore, please stop "nagging".

The problem is, in full, as follows:

a. I'm a paying member of ProZ.
b. ProZ owns TM Town and promotes it.
(So statistically I'm paying a fraction towards TM Town even if I don't use it.)
c. ProZ, through its professional guidelines, endorses confidentiality.
d. TM Town allows uploading of TMs which can mean violation of confidentiality.

(I see a problem already with point "d" itself, let alone combined.)

Will the problem with confidentiality or with the (potential) conflict of ProZ vs. TM Town principles cease to exist thanks to my non-use of TM Town? No.

Is that "nagging"? Maybe for you, but for some others not.


Whether you use the original method, or Deshi, TM-Town has adequate security features in place, such that the data you upload to them is protected from prying eyes. As such, I see no problems regarding confidentiality clauses/provisions in NDAs being violated, or even implied confidentiality re clients.

A parallel: I store all of my work data in Dropbox. I have never asked my clients if they agree to me using it, or informed them that I am doing so, as it is not necessary, because Dropbox also has adequate security features in place to guarantee the confidentiality of any data provided to me by my clients.

Another parallel: my email address ([email protected]) is actually a Google Apps for Work account. I have never asked my clients if they agree to me using it, or informed them that I am doing so, as it is not necessary, because Google / Google Apps for Work also has adequate security features in place to guarantee the confidentiality of any data provided to me by my clients.

MJWB

[Edited at 2016-05-02 08:53 GMT]


 
TalTranslations
TalTranslations
United Kingdom
English to Hebrew
1 big TM or separate TMs per subject May 2, 2016

Is it better to upload 1 big TM, or separate TMs per subject?

I have created 1 big TM of all my projects.
When clients search in a special niche, they can find me?
or is it better to upload separate TMs per subject?

Thanks


 
..... (X)
..... (X)
Local time: 20:43
@TalTranslations May 2, 2016

TalTranslations wrote:

Is it better to upload 1 big TM, or separate TMs per subject?

I have created 1 big TM of all my projects.
When clients search in a special niche, they can find me?
or is it better to upload separate TMs per subject?

Thanks


Good question.

Currently when you upload a big TM, for purposes of Nakōdo, the big TM is split into smaller parts. Obviously, doing this automatically is never going to be as precise as the translator himself/herself splitting it into its proper parts.

In the future, we would like to add a feature wherein if you upload a big TM you can easily split it into the smaller clients/projects contained within it (almost like you would be splicing a movie into different scenes). To make this easy and user friendly is a challenge though, but I think we will get there.

In the short term, TMs on a project basis are a little better suited for Nakōdo than a big TM. In the longer term, we hope to release a feature that will have a user-friendly and simple way to break a big TM you have uploaded into the separate projects/jobs within it.


 
TalTranslations
TalTranslations
United Kingdom
English to Hebrew
TMs with same segments May 2, 2016

Thanks for your quick reply, Kevin.

What happens if I upload 1 big TM
and also a smaller niche TM in which are included the same segments as in the big TM?

PS
What is considered a big TM? Above how many units the file will be split?


[Edited at 2016-05-02 13:31 GMT]


 
Cristóbal del Río Faura
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No guaranties May 2, 2016



Whether you use the original method, or Deshi, TM-Town has adequate security features in place, such that the data you upload to them is protected from prying eyes. As such, I see no problems regarding confidentiality clauses/provisions in NDAs being violated, or even implied confidentiality re clients.

A parallel: I store all of my work data in Dropbox. I have never asked my clients if they agree to me using it, or informed them that I am doing so, as it is not necessary, because Dropbox also has adequate security features in place to guarantee the confidentiality of any data provided to me by my clients.

Another parallel: my email address ([email protected]) is actually a Google Apps for Work account. I have never asked my clients if they agree to me using it, or informed them that I am doing so, as it is not necessary, because Google / Google Apps for Work also has adequate security features in place to guarantee the confidentiality of any data provided to me by my clients.


For anyone who reads the press, it is clear that nobody can guarantee the security of data, especially in cloud-based services.

Are TMs an interesting target for potential malicious data miners? I would say absolutely yes. TMs may contain highly sensitive and valuable information involving e.g. business strategies, industrial secrets, legal conflicts, financial, and so on. So uploading TMs into cloud-based services will always be at the translator and/or client's risk, and at least it deserves some thinking.


 
Michael Beijer
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@Cristóbal: May 2, 2016

Cristóbal del Río Faura wrote:



Whether you use the original method, or Deshi, TM-Town has adequate security features in place, such that the data you upload to them is protected from prying eyes. As such, I see no problems regarding confidentiality clauses/provisions in NDAs being violated, or even implied confidentiality re clients.

A parallel: I store all of my work data in Dropbox. I have never asked my clients if they agree to me using it, or informed them that I am doing so, as it is not necessary, because Dropbox also has adequate security features in place to guarantee the confidentiality of any data provided to me by my clients.

Another parallel: my email address ([email protected]) is actually a Google Apps for Work account. I have never asked my clients if they agree to me using it, or informed them that I am doing so, as it is not necessary, because Google / Google Apps for Work also has adequate security features in place to guarantee the confidentiality of any data provided to me by my clients.


For anyone who reads the press, it is clear that nobody can guarantee the security of data, especially in cloud-based services.

Are TMs an interesting target for potential malicious data miners? I would say absolutely yes. TMs may contain highly sensitive and valuable information involving e.g. business strategies, industrial secrets, legal conflicts, financial, and so on. So uploading TMs into cloud-based services will always be at the translator and/or client's risk, and at least it deserves some thinking.


95% of my work does not consist of highly sensitive information. If it does, the client will usually indicate as much (usually by labelling it "Confidential", and/or expressly warning me). I always:

1. ensure that all such data stays out of my Dropbox
2. switch off my MT plugins in memoQ
3. suggest to the client that we switch to password-protected zip folders

Michael


 
..... (X)
..... (X)
Local time: 20:43
@TalTranslations May 3, 2016

TalTranslations wrote:
What happens if I upload 1 big TM and also a smaller niche TM in which are included the same segments as in the big TM?


If the smaller TM is included in the larger TM then you do not need to upload it separately (just upload the big TM).

TalTranslations wrote:
What is considered a big TM? Above how many units the file will be split?


It depends. Depending on the file type it may be possible to split the file based on metadata included in the TM. Generally speaking though TMs with more than 500 translation units will be "split" for purposes of Nakōdo.


 
Cristóbal del Río Faura
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No guaranties + May 3, 2016

Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:

Cristóbal del Río Faura wrote:

For anyone who reads the press, it is clear that nobody can guarantee the security of data, especially in cloud-based services.

Are TMs an interesting target for potential malicious data miners? I would say absolutely yes. TMs may contain highly sensitive and valuable information involving e.g. business strategies, industrial secrets, legal conflicts, financial, and so on. So uploading TMs into cloud-based services will always be at the translator and/or client's risk, and at least it deserves some thinking.


95% of my work does not consist of highly sensitive information. If it does, the client will usually indicate as much (usually by labelling it "Confidential", and/or expressly warning me). I always:

1. ensure that all such data stays out of my Dropbox
2. switch off my MT plugins in memoQ
3. suggest to the client that we switch to password-protected zip folders

Michael



Yes of course, my remark was in general terms, then everyone should act according to their particular conditions and common sense. But the fact remains, nobody can guarantee the security of data, and TMs may be a valuable target for malicious data miners.

P.D. My apologies Michael for accidentally omitting your name when I quoted you in my previous post.


 
Henry Dotterer
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My thoughts May 3, 2016

Meta Arkadia wrote:
... did a excellent job "defending" TM-T. Now it's Henry's turn.

Hi Hans,

I am not sure on what topic you would like me to comment, so here are some general reactions I had to what I have seen in the last few pages of comments here:
Michael Wetzel wrote:
For me, that is what it boils down to: Once the list has been narrowed down according to a client's selection criteria, the TM-Town system is probably a better way of ordering the list of translators than KudoZ points. At any rate, it seems like a viable alternative and I think it makes sense to offer it parallel to an ordering according to KudoZ.

This is a nice summary of what I see in TM-Town. I would maybe modify the one sentence to read "Once the list has been narrowed down according to a client's selection criteria, the TM-Town system will probably be a better way of ordering the list of translators than KudoZ points, at least for specialized work." ("will" because it is still very early for TM-Town; certain improvements would come with time and certain improvements would come with scale, and Kevin and Nate are on the case. Number of TU's might become a less prominent metric in the future, for example -- it will more be a matter of how "spot on" previous content (or other indicators) are.)

Anyway, as Michael said, "it seems like a viable alternative".
Ward Whittaker wrote:
I have worked too hard over 17 years to build up the translation resources I have and I will not just put them on the ether to get a job. Won't happen.

I am not surprised by this stance. I respect it.
acetran wrote:
Way to go, Proz!

Thank you!
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
a. I'm a paying member of ProZ.
b. ProZ owns TM Town and promotes it.
(So statistically I'm paying a fraction towards TM Town even if I don't use it.)
c. ProZ, through its professional guidelines, endorses confidentiality.
d. TM Town allows uploading of TMs which can mean violation of confidentiality.
...
Is that "nagging"? Maybe for you, but for some others not.

I don't think it is nagging at all. It is a valid topic for conversation, and of course an issue that I have considered myself. My own answer would be that proper management of the content that we are entrusted to (as translators) is very important and nothing about what ProZ.com and TM-Town are doing here is intended to, nor does it, undermine that in any way. We don't want your highly confidential content, we really don't. (Just as ProZ.com has always taken the approach of not storing credit card information.)

As to our policies as to what can and can not be uploaded, Kevin and Nate have done a good job of covering this, but to put in simple terms how I am thinking about it, you should not upload work that should not be uploaded. The determination is case by case and best made by the translator, in consultation with clients where appropriate, and on top of that, we would of course accept our challenge and responsibility to do what we can to encourage proper use of the service and discourage misuse. (Just as we have to trust users to a certain extent, while exercising oversight to a reasonable degree, with all the services we offer.)
Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
95% of my work does not consist of highly sensitive information. If it does, the client will usually indicate as much (usually by labelling it "Confidential", and/or expressly warning me). I always:

1. ensure that all such data stays out of my Dropbox
2. switch off my MT plugins in memoQ
3. suggest to the client that we switch to password-protected zip folders
Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
As a freelance translator, I am entitled to handle my computer and the data on it as I see fit, and after having carefully assessed TM-Town prior to using it, I feel that uploading my own TMs to it in no way constitutes a confidentiality risk.

Reading Michael's posts, I feel confident that he is approaching the matter with appropriate seriousness and consideration. (Don't you agree, Tomas?)

It is people like Michael, who have at least some work that is not highly sensitive, that I think of as the target market for TM-Town. I suppose that is the majority of translators. I know that there are people out there who work only with highly sensitive data. I worked with such data myself, as a translator. There are certain jobs I did (ex. financial reports not yet released, documents related to future car models, etc.) that I would never have let out of my possession, NDA or not. People who have only this sort of work are not the target market for TM-Town.
Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
(the sad truth is that) no one is interested in our TMs

Some people won't believe it, but this comment is insightful. It is not entirely true that no one is interested, because I know some MT-training people out there eager for data, but yeah, it is not like they would be in a position to pay anything meaningful for data, at least on the (tiny) scales that TM-Town is dealing with.

I am reminded of the accusation that I got in ProZ.com's early days that the whole site was a ploy to collect "personal information" (which meant, in those days, names with email and maybe postal addresses). There actually was a company selling categorized email addresses, and they cost 10 cents (=nothing, on our scale) at the time. You probably get a million addresses for a dollar today. Or maybe you get them for nothing, I don't know.

---

As an overall reaction, the fact is that we -- ProZ.com and now TM-Town -- work for translators. Whether that is more or less noble than other pursuits, I don't know, it is just the state of affairs. The entirety of the value we deliver and derive comes from our ability (to the extent we have it) to provide clients with the most efficient means of meeting the best possible translators for their work.

Which can also be viewed as: Our plan for making money is to help you, the translator, to meet new clients who require your unique services and are willing to pay what you charge for them, and to charge you a reasonable fee for that service. (And, if I am to tell the whole story, to do a few more things with the money that are just fun and contribute indirectly to the whole thing, and because it may help you and simply because we can... like mentoring or events or contests or the exchange, and so on.) It is the only business plan we have had, for seventeen years now.

To that end, it turns out that referencing prior work may be an effective activity. That is what TM-Town is about for us.

That, and having Kevin and Nate join our team. They are very good developers, very hard workers, and they are eager to build tools useful to you. I am happy that a good number of members have taken us up on the offer of free membership for a year. Many have sent reactions, more of those and especially requests and maybe ideas would be welcome. Again, it is early days for TM-Town.

By the way, something we are spending a lot of time on right now is ProZ.com Mobile. This has been the most requested feature at ProZ.com for several years. Some of you are testing already (thanks), and we hope to be able to release a beta version to members soon.

Thanks always for your support and for investing in ProZ.com membership.


 
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI
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Google May 5, 2016

There will be a few posts in a row from me now so if anyone intends to react to something, please read everything first for the context as the posts are interlinked in a way.
Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
I doubt there is much financial value in our TMs in terms of using them to feed MT engines.

TMs from one translator are indeed not so "nice", but it gets interesting with a big picture, input from hundreds or thousands of translators, diverse data that are often not in public domain.
(That is not meant to say in any way that I expect TM Town would try to sell anything, rather that it could - like any storage or pool of this kind - be temtping for hackers.)

Then there is of course the point that I always make when people say we shouldn't use Google Translate because Google might be doing evil things with our data. Google would be insane to do so. If they got caught, they would be in a whole world of pain. It just doesn't make sense from a risk perspective.

Google can do more or less whatever they want with anyone's data - without getting caught or without any pain, because users agreed to their terms:

"When you upload, submit, store, send or receive content to or through our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content. The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones."
https://www.google.com/policies/terms/

I'm not sure what those "evil things" should be in your interpretation, but they can:
a) [MT context] take any bilingual document sent via Gmail and use it to train GT;
b) [confidentiality context] publicly display any confidential text sent via Gmail.
("Operating the services" can cover about everything a company does.)


 
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI
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incorrect won't become incorrect just because saying so May 5, 2016

Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
The problem is, in full, as follows:

a. I'm a paying member of ProZ.
b. ProZ owns TM Town and promotes it.
(So statistically I'm paying a fraction towards TM Town even if I don't use it.)
c. ProZ, through its professional guidelines, endorses confidentiality.
d. TM Town allows uploading of TMs which can mean violation of confidentiality.

Your point d. is incorrect

Would you mind to elaborate why?
Is TM Town not allowing to upload TMs?
Or is sending those TMs which are confidential to an unapproved third party not a violation of confidentiality?

Whether you use the original method, or Deshi, TM-Town has adequate security features in place, such that the data you upload to them is protected from prying eyes.

Once again, security is not confidentiality. As I already wrote:
"Breach of confidentiality doesn't happen at the point when someone else would actually take (steal) the data from an unapproved third party. It happens already when they are provided to such an unapproved party."
and
"Confidentiality may be violated already by the fact that the data get into TM Town hands. It is not a matter of good or wrong hands. It is a matter of "foreign" hands. (And, before another comparison to e-mail is made - that is different through direct, conscious use of it by the client.)"

No matter what security TM Town has in place, it changes nothing about the fact that TM/translation confidentiality is violated (in cases where expected) already at the moment it is shared with a third party (TM Town), not only when there would be a "leak" from such a third party.

(More about confidentiality as such in my next post.)

A parallel: I store all of my work data in Dropbox. I have never asked my clients if they agree to me using it, or informed them that I am doing so, as it is not necessary, because Dropbox also has adequate security features in place to guarantee the confidentiality of any data provided to me by my clients.

I'm not sure what is the point of these "parallels". Either sharing translation data with unapproved third parties is OK, or not - this quality will not change with the number of occurrences.

Another parallel: my email address ([email protected]) is actually a Google Apps for Work account. I have never asked my clients if they agree to me using it, or informed them that I am doing so, as it is not necessary, because Google / Google Apps for Work also has adequate security features in place to guarantee the confidentiality of any data provided to me by my clients.

Re Google, see the previous post. Apart for the usual 3rd party objection, I'm not sure how a service - which is entitled, at least based on my understanding of their Terms, to publicly display certain data it has access to - can be seriously mentioned in the same sentence with words "guarantee the confidentiality".

[Edited at 2016-05-06 11:34 GMT]


 
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI
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confidentiality May 5, 2016

(There were three posts from me within the past few minutes, but the last one is pending moderation as references to one translation association are, ahem, censored [I quoted various definitions of confidentiality]. I'm not sure how fast the moderation is, so I try to re-submit the last post again now, slightly modified.)

Let's try to define and "reconsider" confidentiality.

I.
Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
As such, I see no problems regarding confidentiality clauses/provisions in NDAs being violated, or even implied confidentiality re clients.


ISO 27000:2014: "Confidentiality - property that information is not made available or disclosed to unauthorized individuals, entities, or processes".
http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/c063411_ISO_IEC_27000_2014.zip

ITI: "Members shall maintain complete confidentiality at all times and treat any information that may come to them in the course of their work as privileged information, not to be communicated to any third party without prior written authority."
http://www.iti.org.uk/attachments/article/154/Code%20of%20professional%20conduct%2008%2009%202013_Final.pdf

CIOL: "Members/Chartered Linguists will take all reasonable precautions to keep information and material provided by clients/employers confidential and secure."
http://www.ciol.org.uk/images/Membership/CPC15.pdf

ATA: "...to hold in confidence any privileged and/or confidential information entrusted to us in the course of our work"
"Clients expect their information to be held in strict confidence. This includes information conveyed in a translation or during interpreting, as well as the very fact that the translation or interpreting has taken place. This holds even for published material."
http://atanet.org/governance/code_of_ethics_commentary.pdf

An international T&I association: "Respect confidentiality with regard to any and all materials received from their clients. This shall be taken to mean not disclosing any part thereof without permission from the client and not making use thereof in benefit or to the detriment of themselves or third parties, except in cases in which disclosure of such information becomes unavoidable by reason of force majeure."
(link not included to avoid moderation, but you can look up the source based on the quotation)

Further definitions: https://www.atis.org/glossary/definition.aspx?id=6609

Based on these definitions, it seems quite clear to me that confidentiality is a default value for any information (rather than only for those explicitly labelled as confidential), and that permission/authorization should be seeked before providing the information to third parties.

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II. My opinions

a) In my opinion, confidentiality is an objective value, a professional standard, not something that should (would) happen only when I decide to or when the client requests it. (After all, if there would be various confidentialities or rules, how could a client expect that translator A understands confidentality strictly and translator B loosely, or why should he make queries about that to find out.)

b) In my opinion, unless clear from client's own actions (e.g. the use of e-mail) or unless explicitly approved/authorized by the client, I'd consider the confidential zone to be only the "communication tunnel" between me and the client (e-mail/fax etc.), and the devices etc. I have under my direct & exclusive control; the resources that are necessarily needed to receive and deliver the (translated) text and to write/dictate a translation (including any off-line backup).

This zone doesn't cover sending the translation information to any unapproved third party. If the client wants or tolerates that, he can say so. If he doesn't say so (either because I don't ask him, or because he disapproves), who am I to decide that something "outside" is OK? I have no authority - unless otherwise agreed - from the client to decide about distribution of his materials.

c) It seems to me that for some discussion opponents confidentiality applies only when verbatim requested by the client. In other words, the dilemma seems to be:
Confidentiality always, unless explicitly waived (by the client or on request)
vs.
confidentiality never, unless explicitly requested (if a translator would ask what constitutes an authorized use, confidentiality would likely be explicitly requested more often).

I see a few problems with the latter approach:
- Clients, at least based on comments above, are not always asked for approval of the use of third party services so they have no choice. (If it really isn't any problem for them, as it would seem from some statements here, it would be interesting if someone using TM Town could get their answers re TM Town use.)

- Earlier, trust was mentioned. But isn't it so that the clients simply expect us - in line with definitions above - not to share the data with third parties? Why should they think that part of this trust could mean the information is shared without authorization, rather than them thinking that this isn't happening?

What is your (not necessarily only Michael's) take?


 
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