Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11] >
Which "variant", if any, of your native language do you speak?
Thread poster: Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 05:04
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Marina and KKastenhuber Nov 12, 2012

Thanks, Marina and KKastenhuber.

Drop-down options were created for variants entered by at least three people. In the case of German, there were three such variants: Germany (with terms such as "Standard", "Germany", etc., used), Switzerland (with variations on that) and Austria (again with different terms used).

As it happens, these three variants correspond to the three main variants described in the wikipedia article you cite, Marina. The difference is the terms used
... See more
Thanks, Marina and KKastenhuber.

Drop-down options were created for variants entered by at least three people. In the case of German, there were three such variants: Germany (with terms such as "Standard", "Germany", etc., used), Switzerland (with variations on that) and Austria (again with different terms used).

As it happens, these three variants correspond to the three main variants described in the wikipedia article you cite, Marina. The difference is the terms used to identify the variants. (The terms we used were the ones most commonly used by those who wrote them in.) We could replace those terms with the ones used in the wiki article, ie. "Austrian Standard German", "Germany Standard German" and "Swiss Standard German". Do you think that would be better?
Collapse


 
Siegfried Armbruster
Siegfried Armbruster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:04
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Forget the "Standard" Nov 12, 2012

Henry Dotterer wrote:
"Austrian Standard German", "Germany Standard German" and "Swiss Standard German". Do you think that would be better?


German - Austria
German - Germany
German - Switzerland
German - Other countries

This is what I would use.


 
Marina Steinbach
Marina Steinbach
United States
Local time: 05:04
Member (2011)
English to German
I did NOT cite Wikipedia. Nov 12, 2012

Henry Dotterer wrote:

As it happens, these three variants correspond to the three main variants described in the wikipedia article you cite, Marina.


I did NOT cite Wikipedia. That was the girl from Austria, who tried to make it look like I support her argumentation...

I noticed that you changed my language variant from "German (Germany)" to "Standard-Germany" and I wanted to know why?


 
KKastenhuber
KKastenhuber  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 10:04
Russian to German
+ ...
put them on the same level Nov 12, 2012

Henry Dotterer wrote:

As it happens, these three variants correspond to the three main variants described in the wikipedia article you cite, Marina. The difference is the terms used to identify the variants. (The terms we used were the ones most commonly used by those who wrote them in.) We could replace those terms with the ones used in the wiki article, ie. "Austrian Standard German", "Germany Standard German" and "Swiss Standard German". Do you think that would be better?


Yes, either that or Siegfried's suggestion. The thing I have a problem with right now is that Germany is called "Standard", whereas all other varieties aren't. IMO, this is misleading, because it makes it look like Germany is the only country where correct German is spoken/written. You wouldn't call UK English "Standard English" and US English "non-Standard English", would you?

Oh, and then of course there's the problem of using "Swiss German" as a term. I know now that this term has only been included in the drop down because it was used by German speakers themselves, but the problem is that Swiss German and Swiss Standard German are too very different things. I doubt that those who entered they speak "Swiss German" (which is an umbrella term for all dialects existing in Switzerland and that don't even have a standardized written form) actually produce translations into anything other than (Swiss) Standard German.


GR Steinbach wrote:

Why is there a language variant if you acquired German in Germany?


Why wouldn't there be?


Marina Steinbach wrote:

I did NOT cite Wikipedia. That was the girl from Austria, who tried to make it look like I support her argumentation...


I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to come off as that. I'd be interested in where you disagree?

[Edited at 2012-11-12 20:18 GMT]


 
inactiveprofile
inactiveprofile
Local time: 09:04
English to Portuguese
+ ...
It makes all the difference for Portuguese Nov 14, 2012

Apologies if this has already been said (most likely, but I got here late and don't have the energy to read through 8 pages' worth of posts, sorry!).

Just wanted to say EU and BR Portuguese variants are extremely different in my eyes, even if the vocab differences can be learned. It's more a matter of sentence structure and rhythm than actual choice of words (although of course they play a part too). I would never translate into EU Portuguese, even though I come from a Portuguese fa
... See more
Apologies if this has already been said (most likely, but I got here late and don't have the energy to read through 8 pages' worth of posts, sorry!).

Just wanted to say EU and BR Portuguese variants are extremely different in my eyes, even if the vocab differences can be learned. It's more a matter of sentence structure and rhythm than actual choice of words (although of course they play a part too). I would never translate into EU Portuguese, even though I come from a Portuguese family. (Most people can't even understand my grandma's accent! Beside the point, of course.)

I like the format as it's showing on my profile now: Portuguese (Variant: Brazilian)
Collapse


 
Selcuk Akyuz
Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 12:04
English to Turkish
+ ...
"Istanbul" Turkish Nov 14, 2012

"Istanbul Turkish", "Anatolian Turkish" or just Turkish is the language spoken in Turkey.

Turkish is one of the Turkic languages (including Turkish, Azerbaijani, Turkmen, Kazakh, Kyrgyz and many others) and is an Altaic language (including Turkic, Mongolic, Japonic languages).

Please note that Azerbaijani, Turkmen and others are not variants of Turkish.

There may be a variant of (Istanbul) Turkish, that spo
... See more
"Istanbul Turkish", "Anatolian Turkish" or just Turkish is the language spoken in Turkey.

Turkish is one of the Turkic languages (including Turkish, Azerbaijani, Turkmen, Kazakh, Kyrgyz and many others) and is an Altaic language (including Turkic, Mongolic, Japonic languages).

Please note that Azerbaijani, Turkmen and others are not variants of Turkish.

There may be a variant of (Istanbul) Turkish, that spoken by people in Cyprus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypriot_Turkish

Even in that case the classification should be Turkish (not Istanbul or Anatolian Turkish) and Cypriot Turkish.
Collapse


 
Josephine Cassar
Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Malta
Local time: 10:04
Member (2012)
English to Maltese
+ ...
Native Nov 20, 2012

I do not really understand the term "native" as I come from Malta. Maltese is my natural language but as I live on an island, dependable on tourism and a former colony, I grew up speaking English and there was a lot of trouble whether Italian or English should be the official language. We watched TV in Italian, international stations were not available, and listened to Italian/ English radio stations, so native should certainly include at least English too

 
Yvonne Gallagher
Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 09:04
Member (2010)
French to English
+ ...
"variant" as unwanted filter Nov 21, 2012

I grew up with Hiberno-English or the variant of that known as Dublinese. However, I lived for years in Canada and the US as well as teaching EFL (both UK and US English) on three continents. Add to that eight years of academic, or so-called "standard" English in University and teaching English to EU officials who required a specific Euro jargon, structures and vocabulary, yet another variant of English? (Or perhaps this is the "international"English mentioned by some?)

I have UK
... See more
I grew up with Hiberno-English or the variant of that known as Dublinese. However, I lived for years in Canada and the US as well as teaching EFL (both UK and US English) on three continents. Add to that eight years of academic, or so-called "standard" English in University and teaching English to EU officials who required a specific Euro jargon, structures and vocabulary, yet another variant of English? (Or perhaps this is the "international"English mentioned by some?)

I have UK English as default on my computer as most of my translations are into that. However, I have no qualms about switching that default to US or Canadian as I take on translations into those variants as well. Thus, I see absolutely no point in limiting myself to two (English) language variants and being filtered out of potential job offers for US or Canadian English. I certainly have no intention of putting down Hiberno-English as I doubt I'd get too many job offers.

Surely professional translators should only take on work they feel competent to do and only apply for jobs when they feel able to localise the language variant? Thus, for example, I would never take on Indian, or Australian variants.

There have been interesting points made but, in general, I see no benefit for most people in specifying variants. In fact it appears to give rise to some discrimination in German and possibly other languages as well.

Surely it is far more important to come to an agreed definition of "native" and weed out spurious, patently non-native, claims? I could put Irish as a second native language since it is an official language here, but I would be lying as the only people considered to be "native" speakers are those who grew up in Gaeltachts (Irish-speaking areas), not those who learned it in school or university.
Collapse


 
Catherine Muir
Catherine Muir  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 20:04
Indonesian to English
+ ...
In memoriam
For English, suggest having more than 2 variants Nov 22, 2012

I was born and raised and lived in the US for over 40 years. US English is my first language. Much of my work comes from agencies in the US and I am a member of ATA.

I have lived in Indonesia, Singapore and most recently in Australia during the past 23 years and 'code switch' between Aus English in my daily life and US English/Aus English/UK English in my work. I work for a number of agencies in the US, Australia, the UK and New Zealand.

FWIW, trying to 'fit in', I swit
... See more
I was born and raised and lived in the US for over 40 years. US English is my first language. Much of my work comes from agencies in the US and I am a member of ATA.

I have lived in Indonesia, Singapore and most recently in Australia during the past 23 years and 'code switch' between Aus English in my daily life and US English/Aus English/UK English in my work. I work for a number of agencies in the US, Australia, the UK and New Zealand.

FWIW, trying to 'fit in', I switched to Aus vocabulary but after about 20 years, I found that my 'native' language was being colonized/colonised and I was beginning to forget what I used to call things in "my own" US English. For example, I forgot momentarily what the lift-up bit at the front of a car was in US English; it's 'bonnet' in Aus/UK English. I had to rack my brain to remember it's 'hood' in US English. Likewise, the lift-up bit at the back is 'boot' in Aus/UK English and 'trunk' in US English. After that, I decided to stick with US English in conversation and use the variants only in writing. I don't want to lose my first language!

My MS Office software defaults to Aus English, but when I work, I reset the language to US or UK English as required. Otherwise, spell checking is very tedious.

The bottom line is that I would like to be able to list my 'native' language variants as 'US/AUD/UK English' but at present cannot, so the entry does not accurately reflect my circumstances.
Collapse


 
imatahan
imatahan  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 06:04
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Brazilian Portuguese Nov 23, 2012

I'm Brazilian and I speak and translate into Brazilian Portuguese.

And I become very upset when non Brazilian Portuguese speakers/translators proofread a job, that I've prepared so carefully, and say it is not right, because I'm not writing as it is expected in his/her variant.

[Edited at 2012-11-23 04:18 GMT]


 
Debbie Nevo
Debbie Nevo  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:04
Hebrew to English
Agree Nov 27, 2012

Mark Thompson wrote:

I like this tool and think it might be helpful for those specifically seeking British English or Canadian English translators/interpreters, for example.

In my case, I translate into British, US, Canadian and Australian variants according to target reader, and I feel that specifying my own personal variant on my profile may restrict that as I'll be filtered out of job offers that are not into British English.


 
Alexander C. Thomson
Alexander C. Thomson  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 10:04
Dutch to English
+ ...
Are English variants being displayed in profiles yet? Nov 27, 2012

Iʼm finding that the variants of Scots I entered are displaying in my profile in both owner view and visitor view, but not the variants of English. Checking the boxes to show these variants in my profile seems to have no effect. Has this been put on hold pending policy discussion or might it be a problem specific to my profile?

 
Alexander C. Thomson
Alexander C. Thomson  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 10:04
Dutch to English
+ ...
Sorted Dec 5, 2012

That was actually just specific to my profile and has now been sorted by our brilliant, quick ProZ Support guys as soon as I raised a request. So English variants are being displayed for those who want them to be.

 
Rachel Fell
Rachel Fell  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:04
French to English
+ ...
Not showing Dec 15, 2012

I tried to set my "variant" yesterday and thought I'd clicked for it to be displayed, but it isn't and I can't see how to adjust this.

 
Ambrose Li
Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 05:04
English
+ ...
Comments on the “Chinese” variants Jan 1, 2013

Agencies (and probably a lot of translators) are not going to agree with me, but I’m going to say what I’m going to say.

The user-entered variants of Chinese are currently Mandarin, Cantonese, Simplified, and Traditional. None of these are regional variants (which are usually taken to be China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan).

Mandarin and Cantonese are spoken languages. However, in standard situations, Cantonese speakers always write in Mandarin (even if Mandarin i
... See more
Agencies (and probably a lot of translators) are not going to agree with me, but I’m going to say what I’m going to say.

The user-entered variants of Chinese are currently Mandarin, Cantonese, Simplified, and Traditional. None of these are regional variants (which are usually taken to be China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan).

Mandarin and Cantonese are spoken languages. However, in standard situations, Cantonese speakers always write in Mandarin (even if Mandarin is not their native language). However, the actual form of the Mandarin (i.e., “Chinese”) that gets written depends on the region (not country, since Hong Kong or Macau have stopped being “countries” (in any sense of the word) for years). So zh-CN, zh-HK, and zh-TW are all different even though most of the time they are all strictly speaking Mandarin in written form (i.e., “Chinese”).

(Cantonese can get written (e.g., in informal situations, or in scripts or transcripts), but different words are used depending on the “region” (CN or HK).)

Simplified and traditional are writing systems and have hardly any true relationship to Mandarin or Cantonese. Which one gets used depends mostly on the region (CN almost always writes simplified even for Cantonese, HK and TW normally writes traditional).

So I don’t know how any Chinese speaker should declare their language variants. If we declared all three aspects of our language we will have to declare at least three “variants” just to describe one language (for example, Cantonese speakers in China would have to declare four variants), and agencies are almost certainly going to misinterpret what these variants actually mean.

[Edited at 2013-01-01 08:24 GMT]
Collapse


 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Which "variant", if any, of your native language do you speak?






Trados Studio 2022 Freelance
The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.

Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.

More info »
Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »