| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | Improvement of the translator directory search results Thread poster: Regi2006
|
|---|
Regi2006 
Indonesia
Local time: 12:57
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I have another idea ... | Aug 25, 2016 |
Dear Colleagues,
What about maintaining the current system as it is, but give more attention on the short-term achievers?
For example, as an incentive, the leader of the month could be put somewhere among the top five for the following month. And if in the following month, they no longer the leader of the month, then they would go back to their original place.
My point is, there should be a REALISTIC incentive for new members to participate on KudoZ and to ... See more Dear Colleagues,
What about maintaining the current system as it is, but give more attention on the short-term achievers?
For example, as an incentive, the leader of the month could be put somewhere among the top five for the following month. And if in the following month, they no longer the leader of the month, then they would go back to their original place.
My point is, there should be a REALISTIC incentive for new members to participate on KudoZ and to be a leader too, even for a short while.
This would not only benefit new ProZ members, but also old members who only recently realized the importance of KudoZ for their directory ranking.
I think this is fair enough as the current leaders who see their names dropped off in the rankings could also benefit from this.
Doing so, would encourage everyone, old or new, to work hard, every month.
Many thanks.
Verdi
[Edited at 2016-08-25 06:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Roman Karabaev
Russian Federation
Local time: 09:57
English to Russian
+ ...
Regi2006 wrote:
If it is considered as investment of time and points, then it's only natural for these senior (old) translators to ask their children, their relatives, whoever, to maintain their investment, and to continue paying for the site membership when they retire? Some of their children, their relatives, might be translators as well, if they aren't, then they could act as outsourcers using their name. Nobody knows.
Impersonating someone is definitely an abuse. Have we come down to discussing frauds of all kinds?
This senior translator should have a relative who is both a translator and a person willing to abuse the system.
Well, in this case he/she will get banned (and out of the ratings) sooner or later.
Regi2006 wrote:
They would continue answering terms. People don't have to be translators to translate terms. Everyone who currently works in their current professions could be the best TERM translator in their respective fields.
You have to know the language to understand the context and you should be able to find necessary information fast.
"Everyone who currently works" stands no chance as long as you have to devote enough time and check e-mail often.
Another thing is that the respective fields are normally wider. For example, the fact that you've spent the last 20 years designing gear reducers won't help you much if the question relates, say, to valves.
Regi2006 wrote:
They're terms. As to how I'm going to use them in a sentence is another issue.
This issue can be resolved by testing only. Testing and rating thousands of translators cannot be automated and thus not feasible.
Why do you keep pointing out that Kudoz is not related to translating sentences?
What is it that this argument confirms or controverts?
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 01:57
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| What on earth does their "investment of time and points" have to do with their children? | Aug 26, 2016 |
Regi2006 wrote:
If it is considered as investment of time and points, then it's only natural for these senior (old) translators to ask their children, their relatives, whoever, to maintain their investment, and to continue paying for the site membership when they retire? Some of their children, their relatives, might be translators as well, if they aren't, then they could act as outsourcers using their name. Nobody knows.
just couldn't get the logic being applied here.
[Edited at 2016-08-26 09:29 GMT]
| | | | Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 12:57
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
jyuan_us wrote: Regi2006 wrote:
If it is considered as investment of time and points, then it's only natural for these senior (old) translators to ask their children, their relatives, whoever, to maintain their investment, and to continue paying for the site membership when they retire? Some of their children, their relatives, might be translators as well, if they aren't, then they could act as outsourcers using their name. Nobody knows.
just could get the logic being applied here.
It's just an assumption.
But it's no less logical than saying I or you get a positive feedback in exchange to positive BB entry, or a discount, a "25-words project for free" and so on.
It's no less logical than saying a person charging USD .01/word will have more clients than a person charging USD .10/word.
It's no less logical than saying invest time to learn other languages if the KudoZ in your main language pairs are no longer active.
Thanks.
Verdi
| | |
|
|
|
Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 07:57
Italian to English
+ ...
| Don't change the kudoz system | Aug 26, 2016 |
Imo the kudoz system should not be changed as you suggest, it works fine as it is now.
As it is now, potential clients will almost certainly get a top professional if they contact a top-tanking kudoz contributor in a speciality field because this translator has contributed knowledgeably in that field for years.
I don't think making the kudoz system more competitive on a monthly basis would be a positive thing in terms of the best translators being at the top of the ran... See more Imo the kudoz system should not be changed as you suggest, it works fine as it is now.
As it is now, potential clients will almost certainly get a top professional if they contact a top-tanking kudoz contributor in a speciality field because this translator has contributed knowledgeably in that field for years.
I don't think making the kudoz system more competitive on a monthly basis would be a positive thing in terms of the best translators being at the top of the rankings or getting the best answers to terminology questions.
Imo many newbies would be encouraged to jump in asap with any old (literal) answer trying to score as many points as they could that month, and as kudoz askers are not experts in that field more wrong answers would be picked than now so the result of your suggestion would be more unqualified translators at the top of the rankings and more wrong answers in the kudoz database.
If someone retires they will presumably stop paying for membership and therefore no longer appear in the top rankings.
I think including WWA in the ranking system might be a good idea and perhaps also forum points to a very small extent if a "Like" button is introduced for helpful forum posts. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 07:57
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Jo Macdonald wrote:
IMO many newbies would be encouraged to jump in ASAP with any old (literal) answer trying to score as many points as they could that month...
Hopefully the KudoZ scoring system is robust enough to prevent most of that from happening. Wrong answers typically don't get points.
If someone retires they will presumably stop paying for membership and therefore no longer appear in the top rankings.
If a paying member stops paying, he becomes a non-paying member, and his score remains active. If a member dies, his score also remains active. I'm not sure what happens to scores of members who cancel their membership altogether.
| | | | Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 07:57
Italian to English
+ ...
| Wrong answers do get picked | Aug 26, 2016 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
Hopefully the KudoZ scoring system is robust enough to prevent most of that from happening. Wrong answers typically don't get points.
Hi Samuel,
I've seen many wrong answers in the kudoz database.
I think if kudoz turns into a chaotic mess of new members fighting for points every month there will probably be more wrong (literal) answers and agrees from people with little or no experience and fewer good answers from qualified translators who may soon get bored trying to explain why their answer is probably right to people who disagree because they probably don't know what they're talking about.
Imo it would be much more likely that an unqualified asker will choose the wrong answer as there will be more wrong answers and fewer right ones to choose from.
New members who obviously do know what they’re talking about do eventually become top kudoz rankers so imo the system works fine as it is now if you put in the time to answer kudoz questions on a regular basis and have the skill to provide good answers.
Changing the current system (which isn’t perfect, but works) to one based on monthly rankings would imo turn kudoz into a monthly brawl dominated by newbies posting any old answer in as many questions/fields as possible to stay high in the monthly rakings while skilled translators shake their heads from the sidelines as the kudoz database is progressively filled with out-of-context rubbish.
If a paying member stops paying, he becomes a non-paying member, and his score remains active. If a member dies, his score also remains active. I'm not sure what happens to scores of members who cancel their membership altogether.
Score remains but as they are not paying they will not be at the top of the rankings as paying members get displayed before non-paying members even if the non-payer has more points.
[Edited at 2016-08-26 12:34 GMT]
| | | |
jyuan_us wrote: Regi2006 wrote:
If it is considered as investment of time and points, then it's only natural for these senior (old) translators to ask their children, their relatives, whoever, to maintain their investment, and to continue paying for the site membership when they retire? Some of their children, their relatives, might be translators as well, if they aren't, then they could act as outsourcers using their name. Nobody knows.
just could get the logic being applied here.
What I got from it is that, if a translator has accrued a vast wealth of KudoZ points that place them at the top of the directory, then they could "pass it down" to others, not unlike any other patrimonial asset...
| | |
|
|
|
Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 12:57
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thriving KudoZ community | Aug 26, 2016 |
Jo Macdonald wrote:
Imo many newbies would be encouraged to jump in asap with any old (literal) answer trying to score as many points as they could that month, and as kudoz askers are not experts in that field more wrong answers would be picked than now so the result of your suggestion would be more unqualified translators at the top of the rankings and more wrong answers in the kudoz database.
I envision a thriving KudoZ community. If we don't care now about people jumping in asap, why should we care then?
This is a free market, you are free to show either your competence or non-competence.
I don't know about your language pair, but the level of KudoZ participation in my language pair has always been low. You could only check fom the last several KudoZ questions posted. And it has been like that for some time (many years?).
If there are about five thousand members in particular language pairs (I don't know how real this number really is), but only about three members answer a question on average (and usually the same people), then you really need to think about re-creating a more stimulating KudoZ environment, IMHO. That's how I see it from ProZ.com perspective.
As for more wrong answers get picked, it's just an assumption, after all. I believe that in the long-term, it would be survival of the fittest. That's my assumption.
More answers, more ideas to think about and ponder upon.
Verdi
[Edited at 2016-08-26 12:45 GMT]
| | | | | Overrated KudoZ | Aug 26, 2016 |
Regi2006 wrote:
If there are about five thousand members in particular language pairs (I don't know how real this number really is), but only about three members answer a question on average (and usually the same people), then you really need to think about re-creating a more stimulating KudoZ environment, IMHO. That's how I see it from ProZ.com perspective.
As for more wrong answers get picked, it's just an assumption, after all. I believe that in the long-term, it would be survival of the fittest. That's my assumption.
More answers, more ideas to think about.
Verdi
That's how you see it from Proz.com's perspective?
Well, that's not my perspective.
And as far as all these worries go about KudoZ . Overrated. Spend more time on better things.
| | | | Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 12:57
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Addressing more wrong questions get selected | Aug 26, 2016 |
Dear colleagues
I believe that everytime you introduce a new system, then people, or the other stuff, will gradually adapt.
The fear that a monthly competition would make more wrong answers get selected as the best answer is baseless.
Those who think that they are senior members (more qualified) could establish a 'buddy system'. ProZ has equipped them with a lethal weapon: disagree.
So, anytime they see that some answers are wrong, they could u... See more Dear colleagues
I believe that everytime you introduce a new system, then people, or the other stuff, will gradually adapt.
The fear that a monthly competition would make more wrong answers get selected as the best answer is baseless.
Those who think that they are senior members (more qualified) could establish a 'buddy system'. ProZ has equipped them with a lethal weapon: disagree.
So, anytime they see that some answers are wrong, they could use their 'disagrees'. And so we make a new rule stating that if an answer get more than three disagrees (from senior qualified members haha), then it should be disqualified and could not be selected as the best answer. It might be made automatically hidden as well, haha.
On the other hand, those who see their answers get more than 3 disagrees, should have their points reduced by some points. Fair enough. And if they keep participating with wrong answers, they could probably end up with negative scores.
What do you think?
Verdi
[Edited at 2016-08-26 15:41 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 12:57
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | That's what I've been trying to say all along | Aug 26, 2016 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
That's how you see it from Proz.com's perspective?
Well, that's not my perspective.
And as far as all these worries go about KudoZ . Overrated. Spend more time on better things.
Exactly. Overrated. Enough said.
Verdi
| | |
|
|
|
| 51 questions up to today for English-Indonesian pair and still griping? | Aug 26, 2016 |
Regi2006 wrote: Jo Macdonald wrote:
Imo many newbies would be encouraged to jump in asap with any old (literal) answer trying to score as many points as they could that month, and as kudoz askers are not experts in that field more wrong answers would be picked than now so the result of your suggestion would be more unqualified translators at the top of the rankings and more wrong answers in the kudoz database. I envision a thriving KudoZ community. If we don't care now about people jumping in asap, why should we care then? This is a free market, you are free to show either your competence or non-competence. I don't know about your language pair, but the level of KudoZ participation in my language pair has always been low. You could only check fom the last several KudoZ questions posted. And it has been like that for some time (many years?). If there are about five thousand members in particular language pairs (I don't know how real this number really is), but only about three members answer a question on average (and usually the same people), then you really need to think about re-creating a more stimulating KudoZ environment, IMHO. That's how I see it from ProZ.com perspective. As for more wrong answers get picked, it's just an assumption, after all. I believe that in the long-term, it would be survival of the fittest. That's my assumption. More answers, more ideas to think about and ponder upon. Verdi [Edited at 2016-08-26 12:45 GMT]
If you say that 51 questions from August 1 to August 26 are low, you should take a look at other language pairs, such as Eng-Jap. There are only 15 questions asked in the same period! And like your pair, it's always the same people who ask and answer.
I took a look at your profile, and it looks great. You're in the top 15 in the directory ranking for Eng-Ind, has 75 WWAs which I think is a lot, plus a P badge. I don't understand why you have been complaining all along.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 06:57
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| That is a viable update | Aug 26, 2016 |
Regi2006 wrote:
Those who think that they are senior members (more qualified) could establish a 'buddy system'.
It seems that with every post you're wanting to make the KudoZ system ever-more complicated. In fact it would soon become totally obscure, resulting in all sorts of claims of unfair treatment, corruption and partisanship. At the moment, fair or unfair, each of us can actually sit down and count up our points. We know how we came by them. We can even see where others' points came from. We may not agree with them being awarded, but that's in the hands of the Asker.
Now you're actually asking for this 'buddy system", this collusion? Goodness, you really want corruption, vote-fixing etc??? Well, I don't. I don't call that progress.
ProZ has equipped them with a lethal weapon: disagree.
So, anytime they see that some answers are wrong, they could use their 'disagrees'. And so we make a new rule stating that if an answer get more than three disagrees (from senior qualified members haha), then it should be disqualified and could not be selected as the best answer. It might be made automatically hidden as well, haha.
On the other hand, those who see their answers get more than 3 disagrees, should have their points reduced by some points. Fair enough. And if they keep answering with wrong questions, they would probably end up with negative scores.
The idea of taking disagrees into account is in no way a new one. It has been proposed several times. I really think it would be easy to implement - on its own, not in combination with the 1001 other 'remedies' suggested in this thread. And I personally think it would be a great improvement. Those who have a really neat IT setup and see KudoZ points as a way to gain clients find it easy to come up with an answer in just seconds. They probably press one button and get instant returns from dictionaries, encyclopaedias, MT programs, corpora etc. Another second later it's up there as the first answer, albeit it with an explanation of "-" as they don't really have one. A certain number of their worthless, out-of-context answers will get points simply for being there first. Disagrees may well come in after the stressed-out asker has made up their mind and gone on to other things. Taking account of disagrees would put them out of the running altogether, and have little effect on the totals of those of us who rarely collect disagrees.
If staff would like to consider that proposal, that would be great in my book.
| | | | Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 12:57
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Should we care? | Aug 26, 2016 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
In fact it would soon become totally obscure, resulting in all sorts of claims of unfair treatment, corruption and partisanship.
Why should we care? Life goes on. That's a normal part of life. After some time, it would get sort out, if not, we'll find another way or back to the original. Just like we don't care about the new members struggling all their life just to get there. That's life.
Taking account of disagrees would put them out of the running altogether, and have little effect on the totals of those of us who rarely collect disagrees. If staff would like to consider that proposal, that would be great in my book.
That's what I referred to as 'buddy system'. It might be not an appropriate term, but you got the idea.
Verdi
[Edited at 2016-08-26 15:13 GMT]
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Improvement of the translator directory search results | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
| | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
