| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | Improvement of the translator directory search results Thread poster: Regi2006
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| Fields of expertise | Aug 22, 2016 |
Mirko Mainardi wrote: Enrique Cavalitto wrote: Please note that the current directory will let sort translators by their "all time" KudoZ, or by the points they got in the "last 12 month":  As per subject, if we're talking about http://www.proz.com/translator-directory/ then I can't see that option, both when logged in or not.
The option is displayed when the search criteria include a field of expertise.
Regards,
enrique
| | | | Roman Karabaev 
Russian Federation
Local time: 11:37
English to Russian
+ ...
And of course I cannot pass by this...
Regi2006 wrote:
I'll give you some comparisons
KUDOZ - translating a term
WWA - translating a real project
Most often it's about translating a term that is challenging. And you need to translate a lot of these to get to top.
Comparing to some real 100-word project.
Regi2006 wrote:
KUDOZ - not all people are lucky enough to be on the correct time zone when questions are posted, or to be fortunate enough to be in front of their computers when questions are sent to their emails. And this is the main reason why KudoZ should not be used as a measurement of anything. All the translators in my language pairs usually ask questions during the day, then, how the Indonesian translators sleeping in Los Angeles get to answer the questions? There is a situation that is beyond his control. Does anyone ever think about it?
That's so cool that you care for those sleeping in Los Angeles. Sooo cute.
Maybe Proz should implement some changes to keep you from answering job proposals while those poor guys are sleeping? That would be fair. Otherwise you'll be the first to answer and have an edge collecting WWA entries. You'll be the first to answer the personal messages as well, so Proz should probably make sure you're only able to receive personal e-mails when it's daytime in LA.
And, of course, it's 21-st century. I often answer Kudoz questions using my phone and mobile Internet connection.
Regi2006 wrote:
KUDOZ - new members can hardly catch up with the old members who have been answering for 14 years even if they work really hard. Furthermore, how can you anticipate those who would join ProZ ten years from now? On the fifth page, eleventh page?
WWA - new members can easily catch up with the old members if they are good enough and work really hard.
Oh, yes, you can. You just need to work hard. Those old members did earn their ranks. Be so kind to do the same - earn it.
WWA-based ranking gives a tremendous advantage to bottom-feeders (and those who widely subcontract jobs) as long as they naturally have more clients and there's a constant turnover of such clients. Moreover, low-paying agencies will love to give you a WWA in exchange for a positive BB-record, a discount and what not. You don't even need to submit a decent translation if the agency has a low BB score and wants to improve it.
Catering for the bottom-feeders is detrimental both to the proz community and the market itself.
Does anyone here want those guys charging USD 0.0000001/word be on top? I don't think so.
Regi2006 wrote:
KUDOZ - Wrong answer get selected as the best answer
WWA - If you failed in a real project, you simply don't get positive feedback
Wrong answer get selected sometimes. 1 of a hundred or so. A little more often if you don't bother to provide explanations.
...or you get a positive feedback in exchange to positive BB entry, a discount, a "25-words project for free" and so on.
Regi2006 wrote:
KUDOZ - You got some colleagues, and you can work together to boost each other's points. It's so easy to do it if you want. I cannot prove it, but that is possible. I can think of a scenario why it is so easy to do it, but only if you want to do it.
WWA - It's so hard to do this with agency or end client. You have to build your own agency first for you to do this. And it's such a hassle, and not worth it.
That's great. "I cannot prove it, but it's possible". Are we building a Pastapharian cult here?
No, you have to register as an agency and it's no harder than to register as a freelancer.
Regi2006 wrote:
KUDOZ - There are many things that are beyond your control (wrong timezone, not in front of computer, wrong answers got selected as the best, being a new member).
WWA - Nothing beyond your control.
Regi2006 wrote:
In many sites, rating is based on the reviews and feedback on REAL projects, not on something that is insignificant as a single term. Because when you manage to translate a term in KudoZ, then how would you use them in a sentence is another problem that you should solve. And you have no proof that you can solve it. Term is not real as far as our translation industry in concerned, project is. That's the whole package.
These are your projects that are not real. Noone has seen them. Anyone can see your Kudoz translations. You do not post the projects anywhere. You will only have a WWA-score - a number of unknown origin in your profile. It does not tell anything about your ability to put the words together.
Regi2006 wrote:
My question, why? If you don't want to, it's your problem.
Maybe it's your problem that you don't want to invest your time and effort to climb up the Kudoz rating?
[Edited at 2016-08-22 20:13 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-08-22 20:47 GMT]
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:37
Serbian to English
+ ...
| WHAT EXACTLY are you complaining about? | Aug 22, 2016 |
whose interests are you exactly representing?
Certainly not yours as service provider, as you already have years of membership.
Clients' interests? I doubt very much.
The point of Proz for clients is to find the service providers they need - rock bottom cheapest for some, the best quality available for others. Your proposal is of no help to either group of clients.
If I needed a translator for a language I don't know, I would trust Willingness to Work... See more whose interests are you exactly representing?
Certainly not yours as service provider, as you already have years of membership.
Clients' interests? I doubt very much.
The point of Proz for clients is to find the service providers they need - rock bottom cheapest for some, the best quality available for others. Your proposal is of no help to either group of clients.
If I needed a translator for a language I don't know, I would trust Willingness to Work Again about as much as the credit ratings that were given to sub-prime mortgages.
Kudoz is far from perfect, but can not be compared to WWA in any way regarding its value as "selection criteria": if you are serious about selecting to who you want to trust your text, no one stops you from looking beyond just points - all you have to do is to read randomly 5 / 10 / 15 Kudoz answers from the same answerer and you will have a pretty good idea who you are dealing with.
One real possible improvement is to add a selection criteria that would be the ratio of questions answered and Kudoz points obtained - after few months, it would probably stabilise and stay more or less the same for years - and would make a difference between those who keep answering all questions as a kind of number game and those who think before they start bashing the keyboard.
The only "plain level field" I would be ever interested as a client would be to have available unbiased information on what's on offer, which is not exactly the current situation, and it would be even less the case with your idea.
As a client, I would have little use for a site that would try pushing on me beginners on the grounds that "it's fair" - if you want Proz to shoot itself in the foot, your recipe is a good one.
[Edited at 2016-08-23 22:25 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-08-23 22:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 14:37
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks Henry, I think I have a new suggestion ... | Aug 23, 2016 |
Henry Dotterer wrote:
Hi folks,
Thanks for the ideas expressed in this thread. We want ProZ.com to be fair to long-standing members and also open to new ones. We'll do something in the area of improving directory search. We'll ask for feedback before doing it.
Regards,
Henry
Thanks Henry, thank you for for considering this. If ProZ.com wants to be fair to long-standing members and also open to new ones, I would like to suggest this:
a. Advanced Search
If what Samuel Murray said above is true, that KudoZ points is potentially a simple yet reasonably accurate reflection of a translator's knowledge in a particular field. Then, it's only natural that KudoZ points be used to sort out the ranking. And translators looking for points also want to be recognized for what they've achieved, and I think this would work well here. It benefits both parties.
b. Simple Search (by selecting only the language pairs)
But, when potential clients are not specifically looking for translator with KudoZ knowledge in a particular field, then, a simple search should benefit all the translators, old or new, based on whatever criteria other than KudoZ; and I'm not only suggesting WWA).
Many thanks.
Verdi
[Edited at 2016-08-23 00:23 GMT]
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Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 14:37
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Maybe, at the end, life is unfair. | Aug 23, 2016 |
Tina Vonhof wrote:
People contact me because of my specializations, my experience, and because I'm certified. I get as many inquiries from direct clients as from agencies and I don't think it has anything to do with my Kudoz points. As I explained before, I can never get to the top of the list because of the time zone I'm in.
I don't doubt it. And if you're happy with that, I am happy for you too, Tina.
You have a good profile, high-demand specializations, plenty of experience, lots of WWA entries, and you have been active on Kudoz. Altogether I think that is more important than whether you are at the top of the search list. Do I think the system could be improved, probably yes but each system has its drawbacks and there will always be some people who are at a disadvantage for various reasons.
Yes, agree, all we can do is to make a suggestion. If they've tried and it doesn't work out, then it's fine.
I'm sorry, but what is important is that, if we think, if we see, if we feel, there is a drawback, not only on ProZ, but also in real life in general, we should point it out, talk about it, do something about it, not to sweep it under the carpet, not to just acccept it for the mere reason that it doesn't directly affect us, or because we're already happy with the current system despite of its drawbacks.
We have to address it first, and then after we exhaust all efforts, it's OK to give up, and say that's life, there are a few things in life that we can't change, beyond our control. I agree.
Thank you.
Verdi
[Edited at 2016-08-23 04:42 GMT]
| | | | Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 14:37
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | It doesn't have to be WWA | Aug 23, 2016 |
Roman Karabaev wrote:
Most often it's about translating a term that is challenging. And you need to translate a lot of these to get to top.
Comparing to some real 100-word project.
Why translating a term is challenging, because you don't have enough knowledge about the term in the first place, so, it makes it challenging for you, because you need to browse it first, to open your dictionaries, and etc.
All the terms that you think are challenging are not challenging for those working in that area.
If it is knowledge of a term that determines your capabilities, a doctor is a better translator than you are in medical field. A lawyer is a better translator than you are in a legal field, an accountant is a better translator than you are in accounting field. But do this doctor, lawyer, accountant can translate the term when it is put in a sentence? This is what I am talking about.
Maybe Proz should implement some changes to keep you from answering job proposals while those poor guys are sleeping? That would be fair. Otherwise you'll be the first to answer and have an edge collecting WWA entries. You'll be the first to answer the personal messages as well, so Proz should probably make sure you're only able to receive personal e-mails when it's daytime in LA.
I often answer Kudoz questions using my phone and mobile Internet connection.
I see your points, but they are different things. In KudoZ, a difference of a few seconds matters. In Job Posting, it is not necessarily so. The clients usually set their quoting deadline long enough for all members (paid or non-paid) to send their quotes. So, those sleeping in LA or in Timbuktu should not be worried.
And besides, it doesn't have to be about someone sleeping in Los Angeles. Though they need to be considered too.
It might be about three colleagues in my country that I've recommended to ProZ in the past, and maybe the others that I will continue to recommend.
They are serious translators, but I doubt it if they are the types of people who love to explores forums/sections on ProZ. And I think they love to help, but I don't think they are the types of people who would rush to answer KudoZ questions as quick as possible so that they can post their answer before someone else does. Admit it or not, KudoZ is like a race. You're late a few seconds, someone else is already there with your answer. You are only left to agree, nothing else. Do you know how many translators on ProZ who are frustrated by this and now they are no longer bothered to check KudoZ?
Oh, yes, you can. You just need to work hard. Those old members did earn their ranks. Be so kind to do the same - earn it.
WWA-based ranking gives a tremendous advantage to bottom-feeders (and those who widely subcontract jobs) as long as they naturally have more clients and there's a constant turnover of such clients. Moreover, low-paying agencies will love to give you a WWA in exchange for a positive BB-record, a discount and what not. You don't even need to submit a decent translation if the agency has a low BB score and wants to improve it.
Catering for the bottom-feeders is detrimental both to the proz community and the market itself.
Does anyone here want those guys charging USD 0.0000001/word be on top? I don't think so.
First, it doesn't have to be WWA.
And besides, not all agencies are stupid. On the other hand, will you just work for an agency just because you see they have a lot of positive entries on their BlueBoard? You will still use your judgement right, it's the same with agencies.
...or you get a positive feedback in exchange to positive BB entry, a discount, a "25-words project for free" and so on.
As in all any situations in life, anything can happen. But how many agencies would actuallly do that? Again, it doesn't have to be WWA.
No, you have to register as an agency and it's no harder than to register as a freelancer.
Yes, of course you can do that but the probability of being detected is so great when a particular translator constantly gets a positive entry from unknown agencies. I mean to be a reputable, non-suspicious looking agency, you have to maintain a website, profiles, and stuff like that. That's a lot of work. People running this website is smart, we should not worry too much about that.
These are your projects that are not real. Noone has seen them. Anyone can see your Kudoz translations. You do not post the projects anywhere. You will only have a WWA-score - a number of unknown origin in your profile. It does not tell anything about your ability to put the words together.
You are assuming that your potential clients are stupid or reckless. The agency which leaves a positive entry on your WWA page has a telephone number, email and fax, and address.
It's left to you how much means and resources you have to investigate them. You can visit their office if you live in the same town! And they even have the history of the translators working with them, which you can contact directly one by one. Do you think all those translators on their BlueBoard are imaginary? Or they would lie about that particular agency?
In your career, haven't you ever be asked to provide at least three references? I can bet that some of your three references have BlueBoard and have given positive entries to translators out there.
If I have a large projet, and I think I am going to use your services, I will contact some of the agencies on your WWA page and ask them if you have ever handled a large project and more details about it. Can I do that?
Verdi
[Edited at 2016-08-23 05:45 GMT]
| | | | Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 14:37
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thank you for pointing it out | Aug 23, 2016 |
Enrique Cavalitto wrote: Mirko Mainardi wrote: Enrique Cavalitto wrote: Please note that the current directory will let sort translators by their "all time" KudoZ, or by the points they got in the "last 12 month": As per subject, if we're talking about http://www.proz.com/translator-directory/ then I can't see that option, both when logged in or not. The option is displayed when the search criteria include a field of expertise. Regards, enrique
Dear Enrique,
Thank you. I just realized it after you pointed it out. But it's not too prominent, is it? It's so easy to miss it unless you are really really looking for KudoZ on specific durations, and you have so much time to check everything, which is not the case with most clients.
I assume when a client is directed to the page of translators list, and they see all the profiles of translators with all their professional-looking photos there, they would forget everything. That's enough for them, they wouldn't care anymore about KudoZ on specific durations, unless KUDOZ itself is already the world's established system with specific ISO.
But in terms of the psychology of customers, I think such 'field of expertise' is rarely used by people when they do the searching. I rarely use them. You are welcome to provide data that people on ProZ do use them on a frequent basis compared to "Simple Search" where they only choose the language pair.
I wouldn't speak for people here, so, I will speak for myself. But I think most people can also relate to what I am going to say.
1. Time issues - I do not like to choose among drop-down menu and then go through various fields in the drop down menu, especially when I have a project that I need to finish soon.
2. Subject - The material is legal document indeed, but the document talks mainly about IT. What field should I choose in the field of expertise? This applies also for other types of documents that contain various subjects.
3. Fear - There is this phobia that I don't like to tick things in advanced searches. This does not only apply to ProZ but also to any general forums which involve advanced searches (except Google search). I like it in its basic form for fear that selecting or ticking anything would in fact deprive me of the normal search results that I am supposed to have.
4. Confusion - OK, my material is engineering, but there are two types of engineering in the field of expertise. And I'm not sure what is the exact type of my documents really is, after all it is not my own documents, anyway. It's someone else, it might be my boss' documents, my client's, my customers'. I am not sure which specific field their document belongs to.
4. Simply don't care. There's nothing more to say about this.
One, or two of the things above, or the combination of them all, would just encourage me to select only the language pair. Nothing more. I will just use my judgement later whether or not the translators at the top of the list would fit my criteria. Most likely they would. Due to a variety of specialization that a translator has, the first five top might already cover all the fields people are looking for in a translator, not to mention the first page.
For the purpose of proving my point, I will use the profile of Tina Vonhof as a translator with a specialization in legal text. I hope that's OK since she has contributed to this thread and she has also said something along the lines about this.
I selected Dutch - English, and also Law (General) in the field of expertise. And see, even though you are specialized in particular field, it's 99% that someone above you already covers your specialization.
It's only when they can't reach an agreement with the first 5 at the top, or they are simply not available, the client would start looking in the middle and at the bottom. Luckily also on the next page. Hopefully, their confidence wouldn't drop seeing all those points getting smaller to the next pages. It's so disheartening to see that the lower you go down the page, the lower you see all their points. I know it does not mean anything, right?
But how can I know if I am new to ProZ or to translation industry. If what some said is true that it's a proof of their knowledge, then, what does it say about those without proof? Would you hire someone without proof of knowlege in particular field, after all you rely on ProZ? On that consideration, would you put a disclaimer?
Putting a disclaimer would be a good idea.
This translator has collected .... points. But it's not an indication of their real expertise in terms of handling a project. Hire them at your own risk.
On the other hand for those with low KudoZ points:
This translator has collected .... points only. But it's because they are new or they are just simply not interested in KudoZ. Some are interested in KudoZ but they are not fast enough. So, this low KudoZ points should not serve as a real indication of their expertise.
No one would 'sue' ProZ then.
Sorry, just kidding : )
Thank you.
Verdi
[Edited at 2016-08-23 05:50 GMT]
| | | | Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 14:37
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | KudoZ is not a waterfall | Aug 23, 2016 |
Roman Karabaev wrote:
Why should his points be devaluated somehow just because someone wants to be on top right here right now?
Most of the leaders have 15-20+ years of experience at the moment (in my language pair the top 3 translators have 40, 31 and 28 years of experience correspondingly), so by 2031 most of them will retire and will stop paying (and will be out of the ratings automatically) or delete their accounts at all. So a newbie won't have to earn 100,000+ Kudoz points to be ranked among top 10. Although, of course, he will have to work hard to get there.
That is great and interesting, indeed.
But KudoZ is not like a waterfall that continously pours down at the same rate with continuing water.
Your willingness and preparedness to answer depends greatly whether or not there is someone who posts a question.
This is what our colleague, Heinrich Pesch, said on the 1st page of this thread:
I myself profit from the system because years ago I answered many questions but nowadays hardly bother anymore. There is seldom any Kudoz-question in my main language pair.
Please see the words in bold.
Even if KudoZ is a waterfall, some waterfalls do indeed dry up.
Verdi
[Edited at 2016-08-23 05:51 GMT]
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If you have the time to do research on digging out old polls and other people's threads which were posted years ago, why don't you more actively participate in KudoZ? And as others have said, you can't be on the top of the list the next day you join Proz (member or non-member regardless) without contributing to the site at all.
From reading this thread from the beginning, the only impression I get is that you're just whining WITHOUT investing time earning the points like Roman has p... See more If you have the time to do research on digging out old polls and other people's threads which were posted years ago, why don't you more actively participate in KudoZ? And as others have said, you can't be on the top of the list the next day you join Proz (member or non-member regardless) without contributing to the site at all.
From reading this thread from the beginning, the only impression I get is that you're just whining WITHOUT investing time earning the points like Roman has pointed out. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 14:37
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | @ Yasutomo Kanazawa: It's a little bit more complicated than what you think | Aug 23, 2016 |
Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
If you have the time to do research on digging out old polls and other people's threads which were posted years ago, why don't you more actively participate in KudoZ? And as others have said, you can't be on the top of the list the next day you join Proz (member or non-member regardless) without contributing to the site at all.
I'm someone in the middle as far as KudoZ ranking is concerned (in my language pair). So, I am the most suitable person to raise this issue. And if I'm not mistaken, I am at number 2 for the last 3 months category.
EDIT: No, I think I can consider myself to be at the upper part. I am at 15th out of 120 paid members (and I am on the 1st page out of 5 pages of paid members).
From reading this thread from the beginning, the only impression I get is that you're just whining WITHOUT investing time earning the points like Roman has pointed out.
Well, would you tell that to those translators in Finnish - German language pair? Invest time and earn the points? Really, as simple as that? The KudoZ in this language pair has not been active since December 2015!
Verdi
[Edited at 2016-08-23 06:29 GMT]
| | | | | Maybe so, but why care about other language pairs you don't work in? | Aug 23, 2016 |
Regi2006 wrote: Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
If you have the time to do research on digging out old polls and other people's threads which were posted years ago, why don't you more actively participate in KudoZ? And as others have said, you can't be on the top of the list the next day you join Proz (member or non-member regardless) without contributing to the site at all. I'm someone in the middle as far as KudoZ ranking is concerned (in my language pair). So, I am the most suitable person to raise this issue. And if I'm not mistaken, I am at number 2 for the last 3 months category. EDIT: No, I think I can consider myself to be at the upper part. I am at 15th out of 120 paid members (and I am on the 1st page out of 5 pages of paid members). From reading this thread from the beginning, the only impression I get is that you're just whining WITHOUT investing time earning the points like Roman has pointed out. Well, would you tell that to those translators in Finnish - German language pair? Invest time and earn the points? Really, as simple as that? The KudoZ in this language pair has not been active since December 2015! Verdi [Edited at 2016-08-23 06:13 GMT]
Verdi, I understand your point of view, but I don't understand why you have to bring up Finnish-German pair where you don't even work in? And if you're 15th out of 120 paid members, I must say that you are doing pretty well. A little more effort in KudoZ would bring you up to, say, into the top 10.
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 03:37
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| I think I'm the most puzzled one about your motivation | Aug 23, 2016 |
Regi2006 wrote:
So, I am the most suitable person to raise this issue.
I just couldn't understand the reasoning behind this.
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Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 14:37
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | This is why ... | Aug 23, 2016 |
Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
Verdi, I understand your point of view, but I don't understand why you have to bring up Finnish-German pair where you don't even work in? And if you're 15th out of 120 paid members, I must say that you are doing pretty well. A little more effort in KudoZ would bring you up to, say, into the top 10.
Yes, that is quite possible, especially since around 8 members above me are no longer active on KudoZ for a long time.
jyuan_us wrote: Regi2006 wrote:
So, I am the most suitable person to raise this issue. I just couldn't understand the reasoning behind this.
Because if I am new to ProZ, then all the members would simply dismiss me, saying invest time, earn points.
Verdi
| | | | Roman Karabaev
Russian Federation
Local time: 11:37
English to Russian
+ ...
| And it definitely should not be. | Aug 23, 2016 |
Regi2006 wrote:
All the terms that you think are challenging are not challenging for those working in that area.
If it is knowledge of a term that determines your capabilities, a doctor is a better translator than you in medical field. A lawyer is a better translator than you in a legal field, an accountant is a better translator than you in accounting field.
The terms are also challenging when you have to deal with abbreviations, bad source texts and lack of context. This makes up to 50% of all questions.
Regi2006 wrote:
But do this doctor, lawyer, accountant can translate the term when it is put in a sentence? This is what I am talking about.
Basically you are talking about having a way to be top-listed right here right now bypassing those who worked for years to be there.
Neither WWA-based ranking nor any alternative way to depreciate many years of work of other translators solve this issue. That's what test translations are used for.
Regi2006 wrote:
It doesn't have to be about someone sleeping in Los Angeles. Though they need to be considered too.
Well, it was you who started talking about someone sleeping in LA. And now "it doesn't have to be about them" but at the same time "they need to be considered".
OK. Are you or are you not ready to "be disadvantaged" so that you no longer be the first to answer job proposals and personal emails due to timezone difference?
The answer is "no", of course.
Regi2006 wrote:
It might be about three colleagues in my country that I've recommended to ProZ in the past, and maybe the others that I will continue to recommend.
An attempt to bargain with ProZ management detected. Probably a blackmail attempt as well: "do what I want or I'll stop attracting new paying members".
I have also attracted several translators here. So what?
ProZ is high in Google search results, so in case you choose not to recommend ProZ any longer they will still find it.
Regi2006 wrote:
They are serious translators, and I think they love to help, but I don't think they are the types of people who would rush to answer KudoZ questions as quick as possible so that they can post their answer before someone else does. Admit it or not, KudoZ is like a race. You're late a few seconds, someone else is already there with your answer. You are only left to agree, nothing else. Do you know how many translators on ProZ who are frustrated by this and now they are no longer bothered to check KudoZ?
Competition is a race, there's nothing new about it. You're late a few seconds - and someone else takes the job, Kudoz points and what not.
The thing is: depreciating many years of other translator's work won't change it.
Regi2006 wrote:
First, it doesn't have to be WWA.
Nor it should be.
By default a person charging USD .01/word will have more clients than a person charging USD .10/word. Therefore WWA-based rating favors bottom-feeders empowered by their numerous one-time junk clients. Placing bottom-feeders to the top means that noone's going to get decent rates any longer. Rates have been going down for many years, and I see absolutely no reason to strengthen this tendency further.
There's actually only one reason for you to propose WWA-based system: your personal WWA score.
Regi2006 wrote:
On the other hand, will you just work for an agency just because you see they have a lot of positive entries on their BlueBoard? You still use your judgement right, it's the same with agencies.
I will. Provided that the money is right and there are no negative entries. Why shouldn't I?
Regi2006 wrote:
As in all any situations in life, anything can happen. But how many agencies would actuallly do that? Again, it doesn't have to be WWA.
Nearly 100% of the peanut-paying agencies.
Regi2006 wrote:
Yes, of course you can do that but the probability of being detected is so great when a particular translator constantly gets a positive entry from unknown agencies. I mean to be a reputable, non-suspicious looking agency, you have to maintain a website, profiles, and stuff like that. That's a lot of work. People running this website is smart, we should not worry too much about that.
An attempt to flatter ProZ management detected. In a real life noone's going to check numerous entries. And again, apart from frauds there are thousands of completely legitimate peanut-paying agencies who represent an endless resource for bottom-feeders to gain WWA entries.
Regi2006 wrote:
You are assuming clients are stupid. The agency which leaves a positive entry on your WWA page has a telephone number, email and fax, and address.
You are assuming I am stupid and not following the context of the dialog.
These are your projects that are not real. Noone has seen them. Anyone can see your Kudoz translations. You do not post the projects anywhere. You will only have a WWA-score - a number of unknown origin in your profile. It does not tell anything about your ability to put the words together.
No matter what contact details those agencies have. These contact details tell nothing about your ability to put the words together. No agency will share details of completed projects. Thus this WWA number means even less than Kudoz points in terms of your ability to translate. Kudoz points are traceable and everyone is able to access and evaluate your answers.
Regi2006 wrote:
It's left to you how much means and resources you have to investigate them. You can visit their office if you live in the same town! And they even have the history of the translators working with them, which you can contact directly one by one. Do you think all those translators on their BlueBoard are imaginary? Or they would lie about that particular agency?
In a real life >90% of potential clients who contact me ask questions about my education background, years of experience and so on. The point is that my profile already contains this information. Vast majority of project managers don't even read the profile. They have a template that they use to compose emails. They select some translators and send them a similar email. That's how it works in most cases. Noone will visit any offices, noone will contact the translators listed in the history. It's too time consuming and the project manager has neither time nor desire to do it.
Regi2006 wrote:
In your career, haven't you ever be asked to provide at least three references? I can bet that some of your three references have BlueBoard and have given positive entries to translators out there.
I never provide references. They can be misused.
Regi2006 wrote:
If I have a large projet, and I think I am going to use your services, I will contact some of the agencies on your WWA page and ask them if you have ever handled a large project and more details about it. Can I do that?
Yes, you can. But it won't lead you anywhere. Everyone has ever handled a large project, what's so special about it?
These agencies won't send you the translated text, so you won't get any information above what's written in the WWA section.
| | | | Roman Karabaev
Russian Federation
Local time: 11:37
English to Russian
+ ...
Regi2006 wrote:
But in terms of the psychology of customers, I think such 'field of expertise' is rarely used by people when they do the searching. I rarely use them. You are welcome to provide data that people on ProZ do use them on a frequent basis compared to "Simple Search" where they only choose the language pair.
My recent visitors of "outsourcer" type and "not logged in" type came from:
[Search: Specialty: Tech/Engineering, From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: Specialty: Aerospace / Aviation / Space, Native Language: Russian, From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: Native Language: Russian, From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: Specialty: Petroleum Eng/Sci, From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: Specialty: IT (Information Technology), From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: Native Language: Russian, From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: Specialty: Metallurgy / Casting, From: Russian, To: English]
[Search: From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: Specialty: Aerospace / Aviation / Space, Native Language: Russian, From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: Specialty: Military / Defense, From: English, To: Russian]
[Search: Specialty: Games / Video Games / Gaming / Casino, From: Russian, To: English]
[Search: Specialty: Construction / Civil Engineering, Native Language: Russian, Country: Russian Federation, From: English, To: Russian]
So 9 out of 17 visitors do use field of expertise filters. That does not correspond to "rarely".
Other visitors came from unknown sources. I filtered out "Freelancer" type visitors for obvious reasons.
Regi2006 wrote:
1. Time issues - I do not like to choose among drop-down menu and then go through various fields in the drop down menu, especially when I have a project that I need to finish soon.
Oh, marvellious.
Yet a couple of posts above you wrote:
It's left to you how much means and resources you have to investigate them. You can visit their office if you live in the same town! And they even have the history of the translators working with them, which you can contact directly one by one.
...
If I have a large projet, and I think I am going to use your services, I will contact some of the agencies on your WWA page and ask them if you have ever handled a large project and more details about it. Can I do that?
Regi2006 wrote:
2. Subject - The material is legal document indeed, but the document talks mainly about IT. What field should I choose in the field of expertise? This applies also for other types of documents that contain various subjects.
Of course it's IT (and the prevailing subject in any other case).
Regi2006 wrote:
3. Fear - There is this phobia that I don't like to tick things in advanced searches. This does not only apply to ProZ but also to any general forums which involve advanced searches (except Google search). I like it in its basic form for fear that selecting or ticking anything would in fact deprive me of the normal search results that I am supposed to have.
And I'm afraid to fight, that's why I'm not a prefessional boxer. You should not be a project manager if you have such phobia: the scary radiobuttons and ticks are everywhere. What other contradictions will you mention to support your desire to be top-listed? Carpal tunnel syndrome?
Regi2006 wrote
4. Confusion - OK, my material is engineering, but there are two types of engineering in the field of expertise. And I'm not sure what is the exact type of my documents really is, after all it is not my own documents, anyway. It's someone else, it might be my boss' documents, my client's, my customers'. I am not sure which specific field their document belongs to.
General Engineering.
Regi2006 wrote
4. Simply don't care. There's nothing more to say about this.
That's how peanut-paying agencies choose translators. They want as much search results as possible.
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