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Poll: Do you have a degree in translation/interpreting?
Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
Yaotl Altan
Yaotl Altan  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 01:27
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Just translate Nov 12, 2015

Mario Chavez wrote:

Yaotl Altan wrote:

Do Messi and Neymar need a degree in football?

I think translation theory is one of the most overrated theories on Earth's history.


Did you come to that conclusion after studying translation theories for years or you are just expressing a floating opinion?

I find your comparison between football players and translators the extreme of insouciant inadequacy.


I came to that conclusion before your several personal attacks every time you disagree with somebody, without arguments, by pouring adjectives instead of common sense.

Translators and interpretation exist since thousands of years ago, but you would need to read more about human civilization. Where were the degrees then? Come on. Just translate.

Keep translating, people.... and put degrees aside.

[Modifié le 2015-11-12 17:02 GMT]


 
Jose Arnoldo Rodriguez-Carrington
Jose Arnoldo Rodriguez-Carrington  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 01:27
English to Spanish
+ ...
Exactly, Nov 12, 2015

Kirsten Bodart wrote:

Michael Harris wrote:

and after working with some translators in the past that have had a uni degree, etc., I have the impression that I have not missed much.


Exactly. Shocking sometimes.



I understand that people like Neilmac can feel that the "oppositions" in Spain that he mentions are a slap in the face to those people who have worked hard and studied to get those coveted letters after their names, but I have to agree with Kirsten and Michael.

Many of us who do not have a degree in translation provide work of the same quality, and perhaps better than some of those who do, and maybe we have worked harder to get work, at least in the beginning.

Having a degree does not make a translator better automatically. I have approximately 30 years of experience and millions of translated words behind me, I have studied extensively on my own, and I would challenge any person with a degree to prove he/she can do a better job than I can.


 
Jose Arnoldo Rodriguez-Carrington
Jose Arnoldo Rodriguez-Carrington  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 01:27
English to Spanish
+ ...
Yes Chris, but... Nov 12, 2015

I agree, there are plenty of translators without degrees that are terrible, and some do real damage to the whole translation community because of the low rates they accept, but it is also true that there are plenty of translators WITH degrees that are terrible, and you can add arrogance to the equation.

In my opinion if a translator has or does not have a degree in translation is irrelevant. What is really needed to be a good translation is simply this:

a) Near-native
... See more
I agree, there are plenty of translators without degrees that are terrible, and some do real damage to the whole translation community because of the low rates they accept, but it is also true that there are plenty of translators WITH degrees that are terrible, and you can add arrogance to the equation.

In my opinion if a translator has or does not have a degree in translation is irrelevant. What is really needed to be a good translation is simply this:

a) Near-native command of the source language
b) Native command of the target language
c) Excellent reading and writing skills
d) Always make every effort to write the transaltion in such a way that it sounds and feels natural in the target language and does not scream "I am a translation!".

That is it, nothing more, no degrees and such stuff.

[Edited at 2015-11-12 17:33 GMT]
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Mario Chavez (X)
Mario Chavez (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:27
English to Spanish
+ ...
No personal attacks Nov 12, 2015

Yaotl Altan wrote:

Mario Chavez wrote:

Yaotl Altan wrote:

Do Messi and Neymar need a degree in football?

I think translation theory is one of the most overrated theories on Earth's history.


Did you come to that conclusion after studying translation theories for years or you are just expressing a floating opinion?

I find your comparison between football players and translators the extreme of insouciant inadequacy.


I came to that conclusion before your several personal attacks every time you disagree with somebody, without arguments, by pouring adjectives instead of common sense.

Translators and interpretation exist since thousands of years ago, but you would need to read more about human civilization. Where were the degrees then? Come on. Just translate.

Keep translating, people.... and put degrees aside.

[Modifié le 2015-11-12 17:02 GMT]


One of the wonderful concepts we have learned from the Greeks is the art of argument. To argue an idea, its pros and cons, we have to be prepared to support it, not just say it.

If someone claims that Pluto is indeed a planet, for example, I would expect him to offer supporting evidence, such as measurements, astronomical data, references to reports, etc. instead of just a personal statement.

We are all allowed to like or dislike whatever we study, including translation theories. Your opinion seems to dismiss them out of hand without any reference to past experience with those theories. Therefore, your opinion has little weight. That's not a personal attack but a rational, common-sense conclusion.


 
David Richardson
David Richardson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:27
Member (2012)
French to English
No - well, a degree in European Studies anyway! Nov 12, 2015

I graduated from Uni in 2002 with a degree in European Studies, with elements of translation in my final year... however no, not a degree specifically orientated towards translation.

In my experience (albeit only 3 and a half years), I gain lots of repeat business through delivering quality work, without really finding the need to quote on jobs on ProZ, with offers coming through being sufficient to keep me occupied full-time! I've proofread and edited various texts, where quite ev
... See more
I graduated from Uni in 2002 with a degree in European Studies, with elements of translation in my final year... however no, not a degree specifically orientated towards translation.

In my experience (albeit only 3 and a half years), I gain lots of repeat business through delivering quality work, without really finding the need to quote on jobs on ProZ, with offers coming through being sufficient to keep me occupied full-time! I've proofread and edited various texts, where quite evidently the level of the "translator"'s education appears very basic. Not to say a degree isn't important - I believe I've started business relationships with outsourcers through having a degree in the first instance - maybe showing my capacity to learn and dedication, rather than my specific translation skills - which are demonstrated through my work. My friend who is a translator (more a proofreader these days, mainly) got me into the world of translation, and I've never looked back. I owe him plenty of thanks!

To summarise, I feel just showing repeated, quality work, adhering to deadlines gains repeat business - as well as increasing my own level of quality through practice.
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Mario Chavez (X)
Mario Chavez (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:27
English to Spanish
+ ...
Better translators Nov 12, 2015

Jose Arnoldo Rodriguez-Carrington wrote:

Kirsten Bodart wrote:

Michael Harris wrote:

and after working with some translators in the past that have had a uni degree, etc., I have the impression that I have not missed much.


Exactly. Shocking sometimes.



I understand that people like Neilmac can feel that the "oppositions" in Spain that he mentions are a slap in the face to those people who have worked hard and studied to get those coveted letters after their names, but I have to agree with Kirsten and Michael.

Many of us who do not have a degree in translation provide work of the same quality, and perhaps better than some of those who do, and maybe we have worked harder to get work, at least in the beginning.

Having a degree does not make a translator better automatically. I have approximately 30 years of experience and millions of translated words behind me, I have studied extensively on my own, and I would challenge any person with a degree to prove he/she can do a better job than I can.


Why does it have to become an unfruitful competition between translators with translation degrees and translators with other degrees or no degree?

Chris (from the UK) put it best and refers to good writing. We often forget that it's all about the writing. Degree or no degree, a bad or mediocre writer will always produce bad or mediocre translations.


 
Mario Chavez (X)
Mario Chavez (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:27
English to Spanish
+ ...
A simple poll yields thoughtful comments Nov 12, 2015

I'm pleasantly surprised at many of the thoughtful comments from you, guys, all in response to a seemingly vanilla poll question.

Instead of arguing over who is better, translators with degrees or translators without degrees, we could direct the discussion towards other interesting areas, such as the quality of liberal arts education in our respective countries or the value of expensive BAs or MAs in the marketplace, whether they're in translation, law, accounting or medical transcr
... See more
I'm pleasantly surprised at many of the thoughtful comments from you, guys, all in response to a seemingly vanilla poll question.

Instead of arguing over who is better, translators with degrees or translators without degrees, we could direct the discussion towards other interesting areas, such as the quality of liberal arts education in our respective countries or the value of expensive BAs or MAs in the marketplace, whether they're in translation, law, accounting or medical transcription.

I know, there are no BAs for medical transcription. I was being facetious

I translate medical reports for a living. Some doctors write pretty well, others are terrible (my top pet peeve is their run-on sentences!). So, a coveted degree in medicine (and these are heart surgeons, mind you) and years of experience do not confer any expertise in writing.

I recently went to a big bank 2 hours away from home to have a couple of job interviews. Instead of focusing on the bullet points in my CV, instead of underlining my knowledge of financial terminology or thousands of words I've translated, I stated, rather emphatically, that I'm a very good writer, and that this quality makes me a top translator. And I kept coming back to that throughout the interview.

I'm not that interested in the job as much as sharing with the interviewers the added value of good writing skills. It's my one-man PR campaign and I'm proud of it.
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Mario Chavez (X)
Mario Chavez (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:27
English to Spanish
+ ...
Partying thoughts on the topic Nov 12, 2015

I've discovered a couple of things about us translators.

Number one, the mere mention of translation theory sends some of my colleagues over the edge.
Number two, some of my colleagues get very defensive when a discussion about a degree in translation, interpreting, etc. ensues.

Ever heard of the Skopos theory? Well, most technical translators apply it without knowing it. Have you read Eugene Nida? No? Well, most of us apply the principle of translation f
... See more
I've discovered a couple of things about us translators.

Number one, the mere mention of translation theory sends some of my colleagues over the edge.
Number two, some of my colleagues get very defensive when a discussion about a degree in translation, interpreting, etc. ensues.

Ever heard of the Skopos theory? Well, most technical translators apply it without knowing it. Have you read Eugene Nida? No? Well, most of us apply the principle of translation faithfulness espoused by Nida without knowing it.

Whether you like theory or not, you're applying it in your daily translations. So, you might as well learn a bit more about it.

As for not having a university degree, I cannot say I imagine what's like not to have one. To me, it's a bright sign of personal and academic achievement. To others, it's a gateway to earning more money, and the list of motivations and results goes on.
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Triston Goodwin
Triston Goodwin  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:27
Spanish to English
+ ...
Nope Nov 12, 2015

I'm almost done with my degree in business administration, though! I just have to get through this ecology class.

 
Roni_S
Roni_S  Identity Verified
Slovakia
Local time: 08:27
Slovak to English
I remember Nov 12, 2015

in my university days, one of our favorite sayings was 'oh, you're getting a liberal arts degree? Would you like fries with that?'
But please, this is not to disrespect anyone out there with a liberal arts degree! All humor intended

But honestly, I think my knowledge of the law learned on the job has helped me much more than any degree in translat
... See more
in my university days, one of our favorite sayings was 'oh, you're getting a liberal arts degree? Would you like fries with that?'
But please, this is not to disrespect anyone out there with a liberal arts degree! All humor intended

But honestly, I think my knowledge of the law learned on the job has helped me much more than any degree in translation could have.
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Yaotl Altan
Yaotl Altan  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 01:27
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Degree Nov 12, 2015

Jose Arnoldo Rodriguez-Carrington wrote:

I agree, there are plenty of translators without degrees that are terrible, and some do real damage to the whole translation community because of the low rates they accept, but it is also true that there are plenty of translators WITH degrees that are terrible, and you can add arrogance to the equation.


Right, some people tend to express a conceited concept of superiority based on their degree.


In my opinion if a translator has or does not have a degree in translation is irrelevant. What is really needed to be a good translation is simply this:

a) Near-native command of the source language
b) Native command of the target language
c) Excellent reading and writing skills
d) Always make every effort to write the transaltion in such a way that it sounds and feels natural in the target language and does not scream "I am a translation!".

That is it, nothing more, no degrees and such stuff.

[Edited at 2015-11-12 17:33 GMT]


Exactly.

Degrees are "necessary" if teachers want to make money, which is good for them. I know several accountants, physicians, lawyers (yes, all of them have their official degrees) who have restaurants, translate or have become TI consultants, because their original professions is not relevant to them anymore for any reason. Why should Translation and Interpreting be different from those professions based on a degree?

My granma achieved just 2 grades of elementary school and her cuisine was superb. I met at least 5-6 chefs (yep, all of them with their official degree) who constantly asked her how to prepare dishes. They wanted to know her secret. "Well, I just cook".

Practice, not degrees.

Yes, people promise love each other and state it as a formal action in a paper. Guess what happens usually. I won't judge an unmarried couple if they have more time loving each other than a married "model" couple with their..... er.... degree.


 
Yaotl Altan
Yaotl Altan  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 01:27
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Challenge Nov 12, 2015

Jose Arnoldo Rodriguez-Carrington wrote:

Kirsten Bodart wrote:

Michael Harris wrote:

and after working with some translators in the past that have had a uni degree, etc., I have the impression that I have not missed much.


Exactly. Shocking sometimes.



....

Having a degree does not make a translator better automatically. I have approximately 30 years of experience and millions of translated words behind me, I have studied extensively on my own, and I would challenge any person with a degree to prove he/she can do a better job than I can.





Oh, then you and me are NOTHING, José Arnaldo. We don't exist. We are not part of the free market or, simply, we don't have enough money to join the elite. Or take that "Eat Pray Love"-like sentence: "we didn't reinvent ourselves". Any 22 year-old student with a translation degree is ready to crush us in quality and time if we are given a 3000-word technical document. I'd like to see that!

This is, do the degree makers are really interested in translation to improve it?, or is it just another market sector to make profits from students who believe degrees are the most important thing on life?


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Partying thought Nov 12, 2015

Yay, Mario's gone offline, let's crack open the champagne!!!

 
Michael Harris
Michael Harris  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:27
Member (2006)
German to English
Oh Oh Nov 12, 2015

Chris S wrote:

Kirsten Bodart wrote:

Michael Harris wrote:

and after working with some translators in the past that have had a uni degree, etc., I have the impression that I have not missed much.


Exactly. Shocking sometimes.



There are also plenty of translators without a degree who are terrible.

At the very least a degree means you've studied and been tested in basic translation/writing/proofreading techniques, unlike those coming from elsewhere.

In my experience of checking other translators' work, correcting translation errors is a whole lot easier and quicker than correcting bad writing, so I know who I'd rather work with - a good writer, with degree or not.


Sorry, that was my personal opinion this morning and I am most definately not putting down people who have a degree or whatever.
There are more than certain people out there with degrees that do things a lot better than those that do not, but never mind, a new day is dawning and this will all be forgotten.
P.S. I do have a degree in egineering (from years ago), and sort of drifted into translating after years of working in the branch.
Wow Mario, you must have time the amount you indulge yourself here


 
Mario Chavez (X)
Mario Chavez (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:27
English to Spanish
+ ...
Indulging Nov 12, 2015

Yes, yes, sometimes I do indulge more than one comment here. Given the ephemeral nature of Internet postings, it's an unwarranted and thankless job, but someone's got to do it.

And I manage to work in translations full time. Go figure.



 
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Poll: Do you have a degree in translation/interpreting?






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