| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Poll: Do you think it's an advantage to live in your target language country? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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| Imo, it's more important to have been born and/or raised and educated there | Jul 28, 2015 |
My native and one and only target language is English and keeping up with the language is no problem at all where I'm currently living. I also enjoy the advantage of having daily contact with my source languages.
When not yet a translator (in my previous life), I did live in Italy and Germany in pre-internet days. Back then, having contact with English was a rare treat. Of course, being locked into what have now become 'source languages' was a wonderful way to learn them through full (and... See more My native and one and only target language is English and keeping up with the language is no problem at all where I'm currently living. I also enjoy the advantage of having daily contact with my source languages.
When not yet a translator (in my previous life), I did live in Italy and Germany in pre-internet days. Back then, having contact with English was a rare treat. Of course, being locked into what have now become 'source languages' was a wonderful way to learn them through full (and obligatory) immersion. I spoke French long before I lived in France and life was more cosmopolitan in Paris so there was always a mixture of French and English. I wasn't translating then either so it didn't matter anyway. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Billh
Local time: 18:04
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Wretched shame | Jul 28, 2015 |
I lived in Madrid with a Spanish girl for 6 years and I have never been asked to translate anything requiring an in-depth knowledge of bedroom language......
| | | | R. Alex Jenkins 
Brazil
Local time: 14:04
Member (2006)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| No, definitely not. | Jul 28, 2015 |
I have been living in Brazil since 2002 (since I was 35) and I am nowhere near as fluent in Portuguese as I am in my native language English. Although I am highly competent in Portuguese, it is not my native language, nor will it ever be.
If I were to live in England (instead of Brazil) how would I keep up-to-date with the chit-chat on the street, the talk in the town, the people at the Federal Police, the officials, the gossip, the things that I hear and talk about every day? I wou... See more I have been living in Brazil since 2002 (since I was 35) and I am nowhere near as fluent in Portuguese as I am in my native language English. Although I am highly competent in Portuguese, it is not my native language, nor will it ever be.
If I were to live in England (instead of Brazil) how would I keep up-to-date with the chit-chat on the street, the talk in the town, the people at the Federal Police, the officials, the gossip, the things that I hear and talk about every day? I would be reliant on what I read in books and on the Internet, on occasional social gatherings - almost an artificial form of keeping up to speed with Portuguese.
The concept of having to live in England in order to keep 'bang-up-to-date' with my target language is awkwardly flawed, to say the least. Do you see anything in the way I have just expressed myself that suggests I am out-of-date with English or getting rusty? What an odd post. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 13:04
English to Spanish
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| If what you translate is British slang, soaps and Doctor Who… | Jul 28, 2015 |
R-i-c-h-a-r-d wrote:
I have been living in Brazil since 2002 (since I was 35) and I am nowhere near as fluent in Portuguese as I am in my native language English. Although I am highly competent in Portuguese, it is not my native language, nor will it ever be.
If I were to live in England (instead of Brazil) how would I keep up-to-date with the chit-chat on the street, the talk in the town, the people at the Federal Police, the officials, the gossip, the things that I hear and talk about every day? I would be reliant on what I read in books and on the Internet, on occasional social gatherings - almost an artificial form of keeping up to speed with Portuguese.
The concept of having to live in England in order to keep 'bang-up-to-date' with my target language is awkwardly flawed, to say the least. Do you see anything in the way I have just expressed myself that suggests I am out-of-date with English or getting rusty? What an odd post.
Odd? Not in the least. How is the concept “awkwardly flawed”? You showed flair for criticism but gave no basis for your argument. Odd indeed.
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Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 13:04
English to Spanish
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| Natalia and Teresa, sitting on a tree ♫ | Jul 28, 2015 |
As the Millenials here say: chill. The author of a poll has every right to inject her opinion or comments. I'm certain Teresa wasn't trying to sound curt or dour, but chances are more than one reader will get that impression.
Back to the question. To me, living in the target-language country of my choice (America) has been an enormous cultural, personal, professional and financial advantage. Around 80% of my work is English to Spanish, and the rest is vice versa. Professionally, kno... See more As the Millenials here say: chill. The author of a poll has every right to inject her opinion or comments. I'm certain Teresa wasn't trying to sound curt or dour, but chances are more than one reader will get that impression.
Back to the question. To me, living in the target-language country of my choice (America) has been an enormous cultural, personal, professional and financial advantage. Around 80% of my work is English to Spanish, and the rest is vice versa. Professionally, knowing American English concepts and names for institutions, health care plans and descriptions, as well as financial products coming from American banks, is essential and not readily available in places like Argentina or Chile, global Internet connectivity notwithstanding.
To some translators, living in the target-language country wouldn't matter thanks to the Internet, yet several colleagues here pointed to the cultural and social nuances (slang, conversation, local news, mannerisms, etc.) that'd become invisible were it not for residing in that target-language country. In the end, it all hinges mainly on what documentation or materials you translate.
Financially, it makes sense for me to live in America and not Argentina (my first home country) all day long. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:04
Hebrew to English
| Both an advantage and a disadvantage... | Jul 28, 2015 |
R-i-c-h-a-r-d wrote:
The concept of having to live in England in order to keep 'bang-up-to-date' with my target language is awkwardly flawed
I don't think it's [necessarily] flawed, you sometimes can notice a certain amount of L2 transfer/interference in the language of people who have lived outside of an English-speaking environment for a long time. I often find it's just little things, an odd choice of preposition, an awkward bit of syntax, a certain loss of the 'instinct' to recognize when something is well- or ill-formed.
Naturally it depends on a lot of variables, and the effect is usually mitigated or even neutralized when we are talking about language professionals who are far more likely to make a concerted effort not to get rusty.
It's interesting that you don't think you have to live in England to keep up-to-date with your English, but you do feel that you need to live in Brazil to keep up-to-date with your Portuguese.
I suspect it's different for everyone, but there will always be advantages to living in your target language country (and disadvantages), just like there are both to make the case for living in your source language country. Unless you live six months in each (and most people are unwilling/unable/disinclined to lead that kind of existence) you can never have the best of both worlds (until they invent free or cheap teleportation).
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 19:04
Spanish to English
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I agree with Georgia that the source country is more important, because spending some time there will help achieve greater fluency and knowledge of cultural aspects of the language which are rarely learnt or acquired in formal (classroom) situations.
I don't usually answer questions like this with such a definite "No", but as I firmly believe that translators should normally concentrate on translating into their own native tongue and this query appears to be aimed at people translat... See more I agree with Georgia that the source country is more important, because spending some time there will help achieve greater fluency and knowledge of cultural aspects of the language which are rarely learnt or acquired in formal (classroom) situations.
I don't usually answer questions like this with such a definite "No", but as I firmly believe that translators should normally concentrate on translating into their own native tongue and this query appears to be aimed at people translating into English when it is not their native language- i.e. Spanish native speakers translating into English - I went for a direct hit.
My target language is English, and after living in Valencia, Spain for a quarter of a century, I'm afraid I would have to be dragged back to Blighty kicking and screaming... ▲ Collapse
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 19:04
Spanish to English
+ ...
R-i-c-h-a-r-d wrote:
...
The concept of having to live in England in order to keep 'bang-up-to-date' with my target language is awkwardly flawed, to say the least. Do you see anything in the way I have just expressed myself that suggests I am out-of-date with English or getting rusty? What an odd post.
No, I don't. And yes, I agree that it is quite an odd query. However, if you think it's OK for non-native speakers to transate into English, I suppose the proposal isn't too unusual.
All I can say is that after 25 years living, teaching and translating in Spain, my (Castilian) Spanish is excellent, but I still don't translate into it without the close collaboration of a qualifed native (Castilian) Spanish speaker.
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R. Alex Jenkins
Brazil
Local time: 14:04
Member (2006)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| I see a further point, re neilmac and Ty Kendall's comments. Thanks. | Jul 28, 2015 |
Of course, I hadn't noted that many people translate into a 'foreign' language, which I do not. I only translate into English (my native language), but I guess, if I translated INTO Portuguese then my target language would indeed be Portuguese and I would be living in the right country (Brazil) by logic of this post. Thanks for pointing that out.
And "you can't have your cake and eat it", as the expression goes. I have a family, and we live in Brazil. The idea of teleportation is wo... See more Of course, I hadn't noted that many people translate into a 'foreign' language, which I do not. I only translate into English (my native language), but I guess, if I translated INTO Portuguese then my target language would indeed be Portuguese and I would be living in the right country (Brazil) by logic of this post. Thanks for pointing that out.
And "you can't have your cake and eat it", as the expression goes. I have a family, and we live in Brazil. The idea of teleportation is wonderfully appealing though.
[Edited at 2015-07-28 15:44 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 13:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Another pickle… | Jul 28, 2015 |
Thanks, Richard, Ty and Neilmac for the expanding discussion. I just remembered a couple of things.
a) I've noticed that some native English speakers who are translators seem to resent the fact that non-native English speakers who work as translators dare translate into English as if it were their mother tongue. I haven't noticed the same discomfort among, say, native French, Spanish, Portuguese or German speakers who are translators. It could be anecdotal.
b) Ye... See more Thanks, Richard, Ty and Neilmac for the expanding discussion. I just remembered a couple of things.
a) I've noticed that some native English speakers who are translators seem to resent the fact that non-native English speakers who work as translators dare translate into English as if it were their mother tongue. I haven't noticed the same discomfort among, say, native French, Spanish, Portuguese or German speakers who are translators. It could be anecdotal.
b) Years ago, I was a member of the American Translators Association's Spanish Language Group, which groups translators and interpreters. Their Yahoo discussion group had postings in English and Spanish and no one felt bothered by it. However, when they expanded to a LinkedIn group and I was called to serve as moderator, there was some friction when I asked that all postings had to be written and answered in Spanish. After all, it's the Spanish Language Group.
Native English-speaking translators resented that very much and complained to the point that I had to resign.
I have repeatedly asked: Where is written the so-called rule that we should only translate into our mother tongue? Have we taken the time to read the histories of translators or are we stuck in the present time?
[Edited at 2015-07-28 16:05 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-07-28 16:05 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 14:04
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| It depends very much on the country | Jul 28, 2015 |
For us translators, I don't think it makes a lot of difference professionally.
70% of my clients are from abroad, and it makes no difference to them where I live, either. What matters is if my native language is the target language.
Now, when you live in a country like the one I live, and translate from English to Portuguese, there are no advantages whatsoever living here. There are no Portuguese-speaking countries in the world that are better in any aspect than most English-s... See more For us translators, I don't think it makes a lot of difference professionally.
70% of my clients are from abroad, and it makes no difference to them where I live, either. What matters is if my native language is the target language.
Now, when you live in a country like the one I live, and translate from English to Portuguese, there are no advantages whatsoever living here. There are no Portuguese-speaking countries in the world that are better in any aspect than most English-speaking countries, considering all aspects of well-being.
If I lived in Canada or England, bening a native, of course, I would probably answer "yes" to this question.
Note that most people who answered "yes" live in America or Europe. In the southern hemisphere, you will mostly get "no" for sure.
[Edited at 2015-07-28 18:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 14:04
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
writeaway wrote:
My native and one and only target language is English and keeping up with the language is no problem at all where I'm currently living. I also enjoy the advantage of having daily contact with my source languages.
When not yet a translator (in my previous life), I did live in Italy and Germany in pre-internet days. Back then, having contact with English was a rare treat. Of course, being locked into what have now become 'source languages' was a wonderful way to learn them through full (and obligatory) immersion. I spoke French long before I lived in France and life was more cosmopolitan in Paris so there was always a mixture of French and English. I wasn't translating then either so it didn't matter anyway.
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Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 22:34
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
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SITE LOCALIZER | It has nothing to do with the translator's well-being | Jul 28, 2015 |
Mario Freitas wrote:
For us translators, I don't think it makes a lot of difference professionally.
70% of my clients are from abroad, and it makes no difference to them where I live, either. What matters is if my native language is the target language.
Now, when you live in a country like the one I live, and translate from English to Portuguese, there are no advantages whatsoever living here. There are no Portuguese-speaking countries in the world that are better in any aspect than most English-speaking countries, considering all aspects of well-being.
If I lived in Canada or England, bening a native, of course, I would probably answer "yes" to this question.
Note that most people who answered "yes" live in America or Europe. In the southern hemisphere, you will mostly get "no" for sure.
[Edited at 2015-07-28 18:46 GMT]
I don't think the poll or this discussion is about how where a translator is located contributes to his economic (or other) well-being.
Instead it has to do with the science and technique of translation, and with the translation quality that can be achieved when the translator is located in a place where his main languages are spoken.
Due to personal exigencies translators may be forced to live in places where their main languages are not spoken, or a translator may choose to shift to a place where his languages are not spoken but which make economic or social sense in other ways. But that does not deviate from the fact that a translator located firmly in a place where his languages are spoken is technically in a much more stronger position to provide a current and accurate translation into his languages.
It is well-documented that long residence in an area where one's languages are not predominantly spoken can weaken or corrupt one's command over one's languages. Some posts in this thread itself have highlighted this.
It is also a myth that it is possible to maintain live contact with one's languages through TV, or the internet, or by reading books or magazines. These are all one way mediums where you silently absorb what you read or listen to, and miss the other active half where you respond actively to language stimuli (that is you speak in the language to native speakers of the language). Unless you also add this crucial element of formulating language responses (ie, spoken interaction with speakers of the languages), part of the language learning equation remains uncompleted. That is why there is no alternative to actual interaction with living speakers if one wishes to be up to date with the developments of one's languages.
In a sense, we are talking here about ideal situations which produce the best translation - clearly translators located where their languages are spoken are in the best position to achieve this ideal translation.
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 13:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Room for different views | Jul 28, 2015 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote: Mario Freitas wrote:
For us translators, I don't think it makes a lot of difference professionally.
70% of my clients are from abroad, and it makes no difference to them where I live, either. What matters is if my native language is the target language.
Now, when you live in a country like the one I live, and translate from English to Portuguese, there are no advantages whatsoever living here. There are no Portuguese-speaking countries in the world that are better in any aspect than most English-speaking countries, considering all aspects of well-being.
If I lived in Canada or England, bening a native, of course, I would probably answer "yes" to this question.
Note that most people who answered "yes" live in America or Europe. In the southern hemisphere, you will mostly get "no" for sure.
[Edited at 2015-07-28 18:46 GMT] I don't think the poll or this discussion is about how where a translator is located contributes to his economic (or other) well-being. Instead it has to do with the science and technique of translation, and with the translation quality that can be achieved when the translator is located in a place where his main languages are spoken. … It is well-documented that long residence in an area where one's languages are not predominantly spoken can weaken or corrupt one's command over one's languages. Some posts in this thread itself have highlighted this. It is also a myth that it is possible to maintain live contact with one's languages through TV, or the internet, or by reading books or magazines. These are all one way mediums where you silently absorb what you read or listen to, and miss the other active half where you respond actively to language stimuli (that is you speak in the language to native speakers of the language). … In a sense, we are talking here about ideal situations which produce the best translation - clearly translators located where their languages are spoken are in the best position to achieve this ideal translation.
Let's not get dogmatic. The poll doesn't qualify the advantage or advantages. For some, it's cultural benefits and advantages; for others, it's a combination of advantages, including financial and social ones.
Let's not read too much into it (ie, “it has to do with the science and technique of translation”).
A well-documented phenomena about long residence? Can you prove this or supply us with well-researched papers that document and support what you are saying?
About the so-called myth: it depends on your particular circumstances. There are no rules, so let's not impose ours.
Finally, regarding ideal situations to produce an ideal translation: no such thing. Throughout history (and I mean millenia of history), translators have made do under whatever circumstances they found themselves in. By ideal, we mean not realistic.
| | | | | That wasn't at all my intention (to sound curt or dour)... | Jul 28, 2015 |
Mario Chavez wrote:
I'm certain Teresa wasn't trying to sound curt or dour, but chances are more than one reader will get that impression.
... I was genuinely surprised. I've seen the asker explain the reason behind the question and thank the colleagues for their answers but until now I had never seen the asker take a "double role". It looks like I gave the wrong impression. Sorry!
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