| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Poll: Have you ever tried to make a translation without your CAT tool to check if it's better? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Giles Watson 
Italy
Local time: 15:22
Italian to English
In memoriam | Why stick to one environment? | Aug 10, 2014 |
As Teresa has pointed out, CAT tools tend to restrict the flow of some text types, typically where the organisation of thought you are reaching for gets mangled by segmentation. If you are comfortable switching between different translation environments - Trados and Word, say - you can generally sort this out.
Trados lets you maintain a benchmark translation memory for reference and offers a fine range of tools, plug-ins and QA routines while Word gives you access to lots of other s... See more As Teresa has pointed out, CAT tools tend to restrict the flow of some text types, typically where the organisation of thought you are reaching for gets mangled by segmentation. If you are comfortable switching between different translation environments - Trados and Word, say - you can generally sort this out.
Trados lets you maintain a benchmark translation memory for reference and offers a fine range of tools, plug-ins and QA routines while Word gives you access to lots of other stuff (for proofing my English, I often use the - paid - StyleWriter and PerfectIt Word macros, for example).
But at the end of the day, what's important is the quality of the final translation. How you get there is up to you 
[Edited at 2014-08-10 18:02 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | R. Alex Jenkins
Brazil
Local time: 10:22
Member (2006)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
No, I wouldn't 'purposely' do a translation without a CAT tool, due to the benefits that I've become so accustomed to over the years such as concordance search, translation consistency, TMs, time/cost savings, etc, but I sometimes enjoy the purity, if you like, of translating scanned documents and rugged PDFs. There's something rewarding about it, which you don't quite get using CAT tools.
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... but not to check if it's better.
It is no sense of using a CAT tool to translate 1-2 page pdf or jpg file.
While for large projects I certainly use it.
| | | | | I use my CAT for everything | Aug 10, 2014 |
EvaVer wrote:
I only use it when required or suitable (many repetitions). I have been a translator for 25 years, and have only used CAT for 2. Of course it is better in many cases.
Like someone wrote, I use it like my own electronical dictionary. Nobody asks me to, I just prefer like that. So, I never tried without (since I have started to use it).
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Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 10:22
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
This is what I mean by being crucified everytime I publish my opinion. The forums have the purpose of allowing a person to express their opinion. Of course it's my personal opinion! Would it be possible to give soemone else's opinion?
Now, my main question was: Who has ever tried to translate a document using the CAT and then the same or a similar document of the same size right after that, without using the CAT? Very few, I think. But some who did that, deleted their CATs. But you ... See more This is what I mean by being crucified everytime I publish my opinion. The forums have the purpose of allowing a person to express their opinion. Of course it's my personal opinion! Would it be possible to give soemone else's opinion?
Now, my main question was: Who has ever tried to translate a document using the CAT and then the same or a similar document of the same size right after that, without using the CAT? Very few, I think. But some who did that, deleted their CATs. But you can't consider only the translation time. You have to consider the whole setup time, the time you spend configuring and updating your CAT as well. That's what I meant.
And MOST IMPORTANT: I'm not trying to convince anybody not to use CATs. I'm just sharing my opinion and expecting opinions back. Maybe someone can convince me of using a CAT, who konws? I'm not totally sure about not using one.
Simon Bruni wrote: Mario Freitas wrote:
I tried CAT tools due to agency demands. For a while I had Trados installed, and used it. Then I found out two things that made me give up:
1) The CATs made me waste so much time, my productivity was highly reduced. Most people disagree with me, and say the CATs are a blessing in their lives. Many people criticize me for not using one. But very few people have measured the time they waste installing, configuring, updating, organizing, etc. their CATs, and even fewer have ever tried to translate a document using the CAT and one without the CAT in a row to actually measure their productivity. Well, I did. And guess what: I deleted all CATs from my computer and from my life when I did that. Because both your productivity and your quality will be better without them, but most people won't agree, and I will be criticized once again for saying that.
2) Most agencies and outsourcers are adopting two unacceptable standards (IMO) due to the CATs. First, they determine a lower price for repetitions and fuzzies, and translators are being practically forced to accept that practice. If you go to a dentist with three cavities, he's not going to make a lower price for the other two, is he? Well, I'm not either. Furthermore, many agencies require your memory after the translation or that you use their memory. This is our intellectual property we are giving away for free, and that will also reduce a lot our services in the future, because agencies with mega-memories from hundreds of translators will no longer require our services.
So, no, I'm not gonna start a campaign agains CATs, because I've been crucified for that before. But I'm not gonna be fooled by these "tools". This is your own personal perspective, Mario, but you state it as if it's the ultimate truth that applies to everybody. Do you really think the thousands of translators who use CAT tools every day are stupid enough to use a tool that makes them less efficient just because that was your very limited personal experience? What I have found is that most of the time CAT saves me a lot of time. Some times, as you say, all the fiddling around (and the occasional annoying error) means a project takes longer than it would have in, say, Word, but this is rare. Other times, it takes about the same amount of time. But in most cases, and in my personal experience, the time CAT saves is considerable. Your issue number 1 is to a large extent negated over time, as the user becomes more competent and the CAT-related processes become second nature. This is the case with any tool, even a chisel. Issue number 2 is not my experience at all. Some agencies have adopted those standards, but most haven't (again, that's my personal experience, I accept yours is different). Simon ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 10:22
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
One of the main reasons why I quit the CATs is that the one I tried (1) included add-ons and buttons to my Office applications, and changed the entire layout and look thereof. (2) blocked very very important functions like find/replace and macros (I have serveral indispensable macros in Word and Excel I cannot work without).
So could anyone please clarify to me if the newer CATs will not change my Word/Excel layouts and if I will be able to use ALL functions of the Office Package.... See more One of the main reasons why I quit the CATs is that the one I tried (1) included add-ons and buttons to my Office applications, and changed the entire layout and look thereof. (2) blocked very very important functions like find/replace and macros (I have serveral indispensable macros in Word and Excel I cannot work without).
So could anyone please clarify to me if the newer CATs will not change my Word/Excel layouts and if I will be able to use ALL functions of the Office Package.
For example, let's say you translated "breakdown" as "discriminação", and you're halfway through the document. Then you realize "estrutura analítica" would be a better translation for the term. In the CAT's I tried, I had to reopen translated stretches to change it. Then update the TM. This is just one example of what pissed me off in the CATs.
So, if the new CATs allow me to do all the same things I do with Word and Excel, I'd be willing to try one.
P.S. - The CATs are usually quite expensive too. Does anybody use a free version that works fine and really helps? ▲ Collapse
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Jon Hedemann wrote: It's not possible to make a better translation without CAT software...
As a legal translator tried without but had consistency problems, so yes I always use it not only if required.
| | | | Luiz Barucke
Brazil
Local time: 10:22
Spanish to Portuguese
+ ...
| Standalone CAT tools | Aug 11, 2014 |
Mario Freitas wrote:
One of the main reasons why I quit the CATs is that the one I tried (1) included add-ons and buttons to my Office applications, and changed the entire layout and look thereof. (2) blocked very very important functions like find/replace and macros (I have serveral indispensable macros in Word and Excel I cannot work without).
So could anyone please clarify to me if the newer CATs will not change my Word/Excel layouts and if I will be able to use ALL functions of the Office Package.
For example, let's say you translated "breakdown" as "discriminação", and you're halfway through the document. Then you realize "estrutura analítica" would be a better translation for the term. In the CAT's I tried, I had to reopen translated stretches to change it. Then update the TM. This is just one example of what pissed me off in the CATs.
So, if the new CATs allow me to do all the same things I do with Word and Excel, I'd be willing to try one.
P.S. - The CATs are usually quite expensive too. Does anybody use a free version that works fine and really helps?
Hi Mario,
I believe you mean the CAT tools that work as a Word plugin. I don't like them too.
But maybe you should try a stand alone software, like Wordfast Pro (in my opinion, incredible) or MemSource (free for freelancers). Both can make my work really faster and simpler. I do not work without one of them.
Of course, it's just an opinion. You are totally free to feel more comfortable with your own methods.
But in my work, these are essential, specially if you build a huge memory for yourself from your own jobs and a glossary which makes you flight through the text.
[Editada em 2014-08-11 01:40 GMT]
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Luiz Barucke
Brazil
Local time: 10:22
Spanish to Portuguese
+ ...
Yetta J Bogarde wrote: I don't know why I should hold the 2 up against each other, mostly it is obvious when using a CAT tool is an advantage and when it is not. To be honest, I don't recognize all the inconveniences of using CATs that have been mentioned here, but maybe that is with TRADOS  Personally, I use Wordfast PRO and I find it a great help. It never gave me any trouble and it does not waste my time; On the contrary, think of the time it saves you emulating the layout of the source document. Of course, I never hand over my own master TMs to the client, but I don't see the problem in handing over a project-specific TM or using the client's TM in additon to my own.
Exactly, Yetta.
I can't understand why Trados is so required by agencies. Maybe they have a successful marketing approach.
In my opinion, Trados is annoying and makes me loose my time (and patience:) with all those open-edit-close-re-open-re-close procedures (Word/TagEditor) or the heavy, slow and complicated Studios since 2009.
And yes, Wordfast Pro is a must. Simple, fast, powerful.
[Editada em 2014-08-11 04:38 GMT]
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