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Poll: Do you name well-known end customers you've indirectly worked for in your profile, CV, etc.?
Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
Tania Pires
Tania Pires  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 22:43
Member (2013)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
No Jun 24, 2014

Agencies expect confidentiality regarding end clients, whether an agreement has been signed or not.

 
Tim Drayton
Tim Drayton  Identity Verified
Cyprus
Local time: 00:43
Turkish to English
+ ...
Why? Jun 24, 2014

Chris S wrote:

Interesting response!

How is it a breach of professional ethics?

Why would you want to keep your own client list secret?

Some agencies get arsey about these things and insist on confidentiality, but why?

The Danes are particularly manic about this. Can't even tell people I work for their agency, let alone their clients.

So for many years I've worked indirectly for the best brewery in the world... probably

I just don't get this need for secrecy.



I well remember when I first started doing legal translation, I would let drop amusing little things that I had seen in the course of my work in casual conversation. It then occurred to me that some of these things were highly confidential, even if they may not have been of great significance to the people I was talking to. It gradually dawned on me that I owe a duty of care to my clients to disclose absolutely nothing. From that time on, inspired by the famous slogan on British World War II posters: "Careless talk costs lives", my policy has been to divulge absolutely nothing about my work to third parties. You may say that keeping the identity of my clients secret is a step too far. I am not so sure. Most of the work I do is on litigation documents in Turkish needed for legal proceedings being conducted in English-speaking countries. The mere fact that I am working on documents for a law firm representing company X probably means that company X is engaged in legal proceedings, or is contemplating bringing proceedings, that involve its relations with a party Turkey, and this in itself could be information that is market-sensitive or open to exploitation by one of the company's rivals.

[Edited at 2014-06-24 12:21 GMT]


 
Julian Holmes
Julian Holmes  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 07:43
Member (2011)
Japanese to English
Different culture Jun 24, 2014

Different way of doing things

Michael Harris wrote:

what for?


@Michael
Here's something for your reading pleasure to illustrate how things are done over here, i.e. differently from everywhere else in the world.

Read on...

15 years back - give or take a parsec - I was affiliated with a production/advertising/design company here in Kyoto that had its own translation department. I was their chief in-house translator at the time even though I was not actually "employed" per se by them as a full-time employee.
They set up a documentation production system (JStar, now redundant and defunct) for doing the DTP and production of manuals, and started courting new customers, one of whom was Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI). Gasp, shock horror! I'm name-dropping already.
All the sales had been done and it was time for everyone to get together. Rather like the bride and groom in an arranged marriage seeing each other for the very first time. We went to their factory offices and sat at both ends of a very large table, so large it was actually difficult to hear what the other party was saying without shouting. Formalities over, discussion moved onto an actual project that we had already submitted an estimate for, a reasonably large project of about 500 or so pages. There was no competitor bid. Whether or not they issued the order depended entirely on Holmsey and if he was up to the task of translating an operation manual for a CNC lathe. This was really no big deal since I had been translating machine tools for the major players in this sector of industry in Nagoya for the past five years. One of the six MHI people asked if he could ask the translator a few questions. I smiled, "Sure, please go ahead!" I replied. "Have you ever translated machine tools before?" (They were very concerned that one of their products would be translated by a complete dunce who had no idea about what they were translating.) Duh! The whole reason we were all gathered there to talk was that we (I) could handle the translation. "Of course, I can. In fact, I've translated operation and maintenance manuals for machining centers, CNC lathes, milling machines, etc., etc. and NC unit programming manuals for such-and-such manufacturers in Nagoya, not directly of course but via another agency." (They would a little touchy about what I knew and where I had gained that knowledge even though they wanted someone with experience to translate their manuals. This is one of the big contradictions in the tech trans business.) I assured them that I no longer translated for these manufacturers. Looks of relief all round. Another person from the MHI 'delegation' asked me a few detailed questions, to which I duly replied to show them I knew my stuff and was not bluffing. His face lit up and introduced himself as the engineer in charge of the writing and would be the point-of-contact if there were any questions or queries. He was glad to see someone who could 'speak his language' i.e. me would be in charge of translating the project.
Out of the whole 2-hour meeting, this was the only time that all of the MHI people picked up their pens, opened their notebooks and actually wrote something. The air had been cleared and everyone left the office with the deal sealed. Time for a few celebratory drinks!

So, the moral of this story, patient readers - name-dropping is essential to prove that you are capable of translating for the heavyweights if you have claimed to have done it before, at least over here. Oh, I ought to added that I don't mention the names of agencies, by the way. A lot of them don't even have any name value, anyway. So saying, I'm pretty sure that allowed levels of disclosure are quite different according to where you and your customers are based. This is my experience over here and the rules of engagement are quite different.
Nevertheless, I would be very nonplussed if I had to adhere to some cloak-and-dagger 360-degree totally binding and restrictive clause in an NDA that forces me to disavow any knowledge or association of whom I've translated for and bars me from even mentioning their name in the 30+ years I've been translating. This is not Mission Impossible.

Even though I am somewhat an introvert, I dislike my anonymity. After a big project, say 4 or 5 months long, I feel as if I'm always being left out of the credits of an award-winning film.
I've translated for almost all of the top-notch, blue-ribbon manufacturers in the office automation, industrial automation and machine tool sector of industry here in Japan, and I'm very proud of that. I don't want to refer to myself as the 'Unknown Warrior' in my own CV or profile. I've worked damned hard to earn my wings. And, sometimes I want to flash or at least have the right to flash my medals.

Added two lines

[Edited at 2014-06-24 13:06 GMT]

[Edited at 2014-06-24 13:37 GMT]


 
Helen Hagon
Helen Hagon  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:43
Member (2011)
Russian to English
+ ...
No Jun 24, 2014

I describe the work I have done, but don't name names. In many cases, when I have done work through agencies, I don't even know who the end customer is. It is my CV, after all, not the customer's, and I would not want a contact to be pestered for references, or any other information, without my having formally sought their approval beforehand. However, I would mention work that was freely available and had my name on it, e.g. websites, books, articles etc. I currently only have a couple of these... See more
I describe the work I have done, but don't name names. In many cases, when I have done work through agencies, I don't even know who the end customer is. It is my CV, after all, not the customer's, and I would not want a contact to be pestered for references, or any other information, without my having formally sought their approval beforehand. However, I would mention work that was freely available and had my name on it, e.g. websites, books, articles etc. I currently only have a couple of these, but am working on more...Collapse


 
Thayenga
Thayenga  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:43
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
No Jun 24, 2014

Helen Hagon wrote:

I describe the work I have done, but don't name names. In many cases, when I have done work through agencies, I don't even know who the end customer is. It is my CV, after all, not the customer's, and I would not want a contact to be pestered for references, or any other information, without my having formally sought their approval beforehand. However, I would mention work that was freely available and had my name on it, e.g. websites, books, articles etc. I currently only have a couple of these, but am working on more...


My business brochure contains an overview of the main projects I've completed in each field. I don't even name the books I've translated. If a prospective client asks for detailed information, I can make the titles available in a email.


 
Alistair Ian Spearing Ortiz
Alistair Ian Spearing Ortiz  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 23:43
French to English
+ ...
Absolutely not Jun 24, 2014

To me, safeguarding my clients' confidentiality is far more important than any advantage I can get from name-dropping in my CV.

 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
@loadsapeople Jun 24, 2014

Some interesting examples/stories above!

Re secretive translators:

My biggest client is a central bank, so I know all about treating texts as confidential, but my working for the bank is no secret and on the rare occasions I have to sell myself I'll happily name-drop the bank as it always does the trick, and if asked they will give me a reference. This is what I would consider a normal business relationship.

There seems to be a general fear among translato
... See more
Some interesting examples/stories above!

Re secretive translators:

My biggest client is a central bank, so I know all about treating texts as confidential, but my working for the bank is no secret and on the rare occasions I have to sell myself I'll happily name-drop the bank as it always does the trick, and if asked they will give me a reference. This is what I would consider a normal business relationship.

There seems to be a general fear among translators/agencies that if other people know you work for a certain client then they will steal your work. This does not make sense. My competitors already know the bank exists. And they're at a natural disadvantage because I already have my foot in the door.


Re secretive agencies:

If I announce to the world that I work indirectly for Coca-Cola (which I don't - or should I not even reveal that much?), just who gets harmed?

If I announce to the world that I work for Exploitative Translations Inc, just who gets harmed?

OK, there may be exceptional circumstances where it might matter. But in general?

Literary translators get their name on the cover of the book. Photographers are always credited. So why do most agencies feel a need to keep the identity of their translators a secret?


Re Denmark:

Gitte, given that level of secrecy, how come these agencies get credited in the publications I translate for them?!
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Al Zaid
Al Zaid
United States
English to Spanish
+ ...
Definitely not. Jun 24, 2014

Recently I asked one of my regulars if it was OK if I put them as reference in my CV. It is a way to demonstrate my experience (the most effective one, I might add). But that was a direct client.
It wouldn't even cross my mind to name an indirect client in my resume (the poll question specifically says "indirect"). They don't know me at all, so if someone contact them to ascertain the quality of my job, they would just say "...Alberto who..?". They just wouldn't know if I do a good
... See more
Recently I asked one of my regulars if it was OK if I put them as reference in my CV. It is a way to demonstrate my experience (the most effective one, I might add). But that was a direct client.
It wouldn't even cross my mind to name an indirect client in my resume (the poll question specifically says "indirect"). They don't know me at all, so if someone contact them to ascertain the quality of my job, they would just say "...Alberto who..?". They just wouldn't know if I do a good job or not. It's just bad business.
Now, it just blows my mind how "subtly" they're probing our minds with these polls.
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564354352 (X)
564354352 (X)  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 23:43
Danish to English
+ ...
Credits in publications in Denmark Jun 24, 2014

Chris S wrote:

Re Denmark:

Gitte, given that level of secrecy, how come these agencies get credited in the publications I translate for them?!


There is no law against the CLIENT revealing who their translators are...

And if you work for a Danish agency, the agency will be considered the translator and may or may not get their name in a publication, whereas the actualy translator often remains anonymous. Sad, but true...


 
Enrico C - ECLC
Enrico C - ECLC  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 06:43
English to Italian
+ ...
Yes and no Jun 24, 2014

Yes for the "normal" customers i work for, in particular to customers asking for references and a list of previous jobs.
No for customers whom expressly require not to appear in any CV or other reference or for institutional customers.


 
Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:43
German to English
+ ...
no reason for it Jun 24, 2014

Besides confidentiality, I see no reason for it. The name of a company says nothing about the quality of my work, and that is what customers are interested in. I never get it when an agency contacts me, says how successful they are in business, and what big names they have handled projects for. I want to know whether they are well organized, easy to work with, and if they will pay me in time. Similarly I expect clients will want to know whether I can do the job well. Not whether any of my cu... See more
Besides confidentiality, I see no reason for it. The name of a company says nothing about the quality of my work, and that is what customers are interested in. I never get it when an agency contacts me, says how successful they are in business, and what big names they have handled projects for. I want to know whether they are well organized, easy to work with, and if they will pay me in time. Similarly I expect clients will want to know whether I can do the job well. Not whether any of my customers are famous.Collapse


 
Mario Chavez (X)
Mario Chavez (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:43
English to Spanish
+ ...
There is no standard for name dropping Jun 24, 2014

I like Julian's story, which illustrates a unique setup.

My resumé contains the names of easily recognized software companies (at least in America) because I worked for them in house or as a contractor.

Ever heard of FireEye? It's a very popular information security software maker these days. If I am in discussions with a potential client about my expertise in information security, I have to drop a name to support my claim to expertise.

Of course, c
... See more
I like Julian's story, which illustrates a unique setup.

My resumé contains the names of easily recognized software companies (at least in America) because I worked for them in house or as a contractor.

Ever heard of FireEye? It's a very popular information security software maker these days. If I am in discussions with a potential client about my expertise in information security, I have to drop a name to support my claim to expertise.

Of course, confidentiality issues aside, there is a fine line between stating a fact (“HP, Lenovo and T-Mobile are/were among my clients for 3 years,” for example) and resorting to self-aggrandizing. I know personally of one translator who does that in his blog and everywhere he writes an opinion. I have told him what I think of his arrogant displays... but I won't drop his name.

By the way, I support client's confidentiality agreements 100%. I would never confirm or deny that I have done translations for the White House.
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Leon Ivanihin
Leon Ivanihin  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:43
English to Russian
Yes, sure! Jun 24, 2014

People, tell me why should I shut up and tell nobody, that I worked for Microsoft, Google, Oracle, Yamaha, Siemens?
It is true and I REALLY can not imagine even the smallest potential harm to those companies, if I listed all of them in my CV. Can you imagine, that Bill Gates will be shocked, when he will know that one of thousands of translators, worked for him was some Leon Ivanihin?
It is not war secret, it is not some kind of corporate secret at all. So why should I hide my benefi
... See more
People, tell me why should I shut up and tell nobody, that I worked for Microsoft, Google, Oracle, Yamaha, Siemens?
It is true and I REALLY can not imagine even the smallest potential harm to those companies, if I listed all of them in my CV. Can you imagine, that Bill Gates will be shocked, when he will know that one of thousands of translators, worked for him was some Leon Ivanihin?
It is not war secret, it is not some kind of corporate secret at all. So why should I hide my benefits from my future Customers?
Yes, I perfectly know what is NDA and corporate special requirements. And sure I meet these requirements in my work.
But this is absolutely another case.
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Triston Goodwin
Triston Goodwin  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:43
Spanish to English
+ ...
Some direct clients Jun 24, 2014

I specifically mention some of my video game clients, but only those that I worked with directly and for the same reasons mentioned by Mario and Julian.

Some clients have actively supported me in talking about them and their projects, but mostly it was just for the free publicity.


 
Mario Chavez (X)
Mario Chavez (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:43
English to Spanish
+ ...
Speaking of NDAs and confidentiality Jun 24, 2014

Triston & Gaby wrote:

I specifically mention some of my video game clients, but only those that I worked with directly and for the same reasons mentioned by Mario and Julian.

Some clients have actively supported me in talking about them and their projects, but mostly it was just for the free publicity.


I have a client, an IRB (independent review board) with whom I have a specific confidentiality agreement: under no circumstance am I allowed to mention the company's name to anyone.

IRBs are private companies that work with hospitals, pharma companies and medical device manufacturers to ensure that the patient's rights are protected in the various documents a volunteer or participant (the “subject”) is required to sign before taking part in a clinical trial. They're like a private club, and I gained this client through a recommendation.

Triston, I almost took part in a videogame translation (Dragon Balls) but the client (a translation agency) withdrew because his client realized that they did not have rights to create a Spanish translation. Darn it!


 
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Poll: Do you name well-known end customers you've indirectly worked for in your profile, CV, etc.?






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