| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Poll: Do you think that new advances in technology will reduce the need for human translation? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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| Just out of curiosity... | May 9, 2014 |
Tim Drayton wrote:
I really wonder about some of the claims made for machine translation. Just to take one example at random (which was in no way cherry picked), one fundamental principle of Turkish civil law, as laid down in article 3 of the Civil Code is:
"Kanunun iyiniyete hukukî bir sonuç bağladığı durumlarda, asıl olan iyiniyetin varlığıdır."
which in English means:
"In cases where the law makes a legal result dependent on good faith, good faith shall be presumed to exist."
(more or less the same provision is made by article 3 of the Swiss Civil Code, which is no surprise, as the Turkish Civil Code was translated from the Swiss equivalent).
All that Google Translate can come up with is: "Benevolence of the Act in cases where the legal bind a result, the main point is the existence of goodwill," which to my mind is just verbal porridge. As such, I see no threat, and just wait for the little boy to shout out that the emperor is naked.
Perhaps there are far better programs out there than free Google Translate, or perhaps it has more problems processing languages with very different structures from European languages, and will eventually get there. I remain to be convinced.
... I translated the Turkish sentence in Portuguese and the result is a word-for-word translation, even in the order of the words, of the result you got in English. Needless to say that the result in Portuguese is a mess!
| | | | | Bit confused here | May 9, 2014 |
The question is whether "technology" will "reduce" the need for us
Not whether "MT" will "eliminate" the need for us
Most translators now use CAT which by definition reduces the need for human translators, as have previous technological advances such as MS Word, the PC and the typewriter, so how can the answer possibly not be "Yes"?!
| | | | | It could do if... | May 9, 2014 |
translators continue to cooperate with attempts to improve machine translation (post-editing work, giving free feedback for university studies of machine translation, rejoicing when the latest institution installs machine translation facilities, etc.). I refuse to cooperate with any of this, and thereby hope to save my profession for future generations. I am simply not interested in machine translation and hope it will die off. Wishful thinking, I know.
[Edited at 2014-05-09 17:20 GMT]
| | | | Edward Potter 
Spain
Local time: 12:59
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Bad/Biased question | May 9, 2014 |
Give me a break. The question did not include "No. It will increase the need for human translation."
May I modestly posit that more efficient translation technologies will bring on an increased demand for translation?
When you bring down the price of something the motivation to buy it increases.
If we can turn out ten of something instead of five with the same effort, our prices will go down, making our services more attractive to buyers.
The p... See more Give me a break. The question did not include "No. It will increase the need for human translation."
May I modestly posit that more efficient translation technologies will bring on an increased demand for translation?
When you bring down the price of something the motivation to buy it increases.
If we can turn out ten of something instead of five with the same effort, our prices will go down, making our services more attractive to buyers.
The poll question is the result of static thinking. The pie never gets bigger or smaller. There is one amount and it will always be that way. *sigh*
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| | Simon Bruni
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:59
Member (2009)
Spanish to English
Edward Potter wrote: Give me a break. The question did not include "No. It will increase the need for human translation." May I modestly posit that more efficient translation technologies will bring on an increased demand for translation? When you bring down the price of something the motivation to buy it increases. If we can turn out ten of something instead of five with the same effort, our prices will go down, making our services more attractive to buyers. The poll question is the result of static thinking. The pie never gets bigger or smaller. There is one amount and it will always be that way. *sigh*
Agreed on all counts.
So far, technology has only increased the demand for translation. As more platforms for information sharing are developed, more content is needed. Sometimes machine translation may be able to supply some of that demand without a professional translator's involvement (where style and accuracy are irrelevant), but we are no nearer to creating a machine that can produce quality translations than we are a machine that can produce quality journalism, quality literature, quality advertising copy or a quality six-course tasting menu served with by a friendly and knowledgeable waiter-robot. Even if scientists did come up with some kind of AI that could translate well, the simple fact is that not all the data the system would need is available in the source text - much of it comes from the wider world. So the concept is fundamentally flawed, unless a machine is invented that can think creatively and independently, go out into the world and find the information and emotions that it needs. Science fiction stuff.
Machine translation is just a tool and one with serious limitations. Incorporated into CAT tools it can serve as another source of reference alongside glossaries and dictionaries. As a time-saving device I have never found it any more useful than that, with the sole exception of lists.
| | | | Julian Holmes
Japan
Local time: 19:59
Member (2011)
Japanese to English
| With you here | May 9, 2014 |
Edward Potter wrote: Give me a break. The question did not include "No. It will increase the need for human translation." ... The poll question is the result of static thinking. The pie never gets bigger or smaller. There is one amount and it will always be that way. *sigh*
@Edward
Nice one! Wish there were a 'Like' button here.
This question does presume that our worth will diminish instead of our being recognized more for our skills.
I often get the feeling that we translators are constantly looked upon as downwardly marketable commodities, as expemplied by the ubiquitous "give me your best rate.' Nothing annoys me more. Aaaaargh! 
As long as people still enjoy the power and subtlety of words in the future, good translators will stand out above the crowd (i.e. mechanized competition) and be appreciated.
| | | | Trevor Chichester
United States
Local time: 06:59
Member (2012)
German to English
+ ...
We all know the disastrous consequences of using MT. Everyone has seen the laughable results from a "colleague's" poorly machine translated document before.
It is our DUTY as translators to not accept work post-MT editing, MT database updates...etc. If this trend continues we will eventually not be able to make a living anymore.
It's difficult enough with companies constantly shoving price reductions down our throats.
[Edited at 2014-05-09 15:27 GMT]
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Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 06:59
English to Spanish
+ ...
Tim Drayton wrote:
I really wonder about some of the claims made for machine translation. Just to take one example at random (which was in no way cherry picked), one fundamental principle of Turkish civil law, as laid down in article 3 of the Civil Code is:
"Kanunun iyiniyete hukukî bir sonuç bağladığı durumlarda, asıl olan iyiniyetin varlığıdır."
which in English means:
"In cases where the law makes a legal result dependent on good faith, good faith shall be presumed to exist."
(more or less the same provision is made by article 3 of the Swiss Civil Code, which is no surprise, as the Turkish Civil Code was translated from the Swiss equivalent).
All that Google Translate can come up with is: "Benevolence of the Act in cases where the legal bind a result, the main point is the existence of goodwill," which to my mind is just verbal porridge. As such, I see no threat, and just wait for the little boy to shout out that the emperor is naked.
Perhaps there are far better programs out there than free Google Translate, or perhaps it has more problems processing languages with very different structures from European languages, and will eventually get there. I remain to be convinced.
The results are made worse off in Google Translate because GT online is doing a shallow parsing of text. That's why it's free.
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 06:59
English to Spanish
+ ...
| There is always a technology for scare tactics | May 9, 2014 |
Back a few thousand years, Plato was trying to make a case against writing:
“If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks. What you have discovered is a recipe not for memory, but for reminder. And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only its semblance, for by telling... See more Back a few thousand years, Plato was trying to make a case against writing:
“If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks. What you have discovered is a recipe not for memory, but for reminder. And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only its semblance, for by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much, while for the most part they know nothing, and as men filled, not with wisdom, but with the conceit of wisdom, they will be a burden to their fellows.”
Source: Plato, Phaedrus 275a-b
What would Plato say about newer technologies, such as Facebook or Twitter?
There are always naysayers and snake oil vendors at every change of the guard when it comes to the adoption of new technologies. I try to sit back and enjoy the view.
If you grab an old Reader's Digest, for example, from the '60s, you may find articles on some newfangled technology that will do this or that. Most highly touted technologies fail to fulfill the promises announced by self-appointed prophets of the future.
More than machine translation or any other technoadvance, I'm scared of misinformed and ignorant client reviewers who think they can rewrite your translation to make it better. I've had this experience recently, and charged my client an extra hour to implement the rewrites. Of course, the translation no longer carries my signature. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Not a question. | May 10, 2014 |
The real question should be "when"?
To that one, my answer would be "not in my lifetime".
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