| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Poll: A customer takes it for granted that you will answer questions from the end client for free. You... Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Julian Holmes 
Japan
Local time: 22:47
Member (2011)
Japanese to English
| Exception to the rule | Feb 4, 2014 |
Tim Drayton wrote:
Things may work differently in Japan. I remember many years ago coordinating a team working on the English to Turkish translation of a user manual where the end client was a well-known Japanese manufacturer, and ended up answering question after question from the end client for days on end. I have never had this kind of experience with customers in Europe or North America.
This was most probably an exception to the rule, or they were just trying to get as much out of you as possible. You are allowed to put your foot down.
In my opinion, if customers ask you to field questions/queries from the end client, this shows that the customer is not performing his role as intermediary or middle-man. This is not kosher.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 15:47
French to English
| Covered by the hefty flat fee! | Feb 4, 2014 |
Muriel I understand that you would lose your cool for an e-mail address!
Chris S, that is my gut reaction too, I had a good laugh there.
Other than that, as I have explained in the fora, I do a lot of advertising, and basically I assume that there will be a lot of to-ing and fro-ing before the text is just right. The source text was subjected to many people brainstorming together, there's no reason why it shouldn't happen to the target text too.
Of cours... See more Muriel I understand that you would lose your cool for an e-mail address!
Chris S, that is my gut reaction too, I had a good laugh there.
Other than that, as I have explained in the fora, I do a lot of advertising, and basically I assume that there will be a lot of to-ing and fro-ing before the text is just right. The source text was subjected to many people brainstorming together, there's no reason why it shouldn't happen to the target text too.
Of course, the time spent on all this is paid for in that I charge a hefty fee for this type of work, well above what I charge for run-of-the-mill stuff. Then, if the client loves my first bash, I am well rewarded for having guessed what he needed straight off. If he quibbles, well, that's his prerogative and he's paying handsomely for it.
I must say that now I've learned to take criticism on the chin, I do actually love getting the feedback and a chance to explain why I use this or that word. I don't choose them randomly, and it's nice when people appreciate the fact. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Reasonable questions for free | Feb 4, 2014 |
Answering reasonable questions for free is included in my services. If the questions are however not too reasonable, then I might opt to sacrifice the customer, as opposed to charging a fee. I had this experience recently with a new direct client who expected (free) English lessons as a part of the proofreading process. After a while I respectfully told him that I was not willing to meet these expectations (considering I would not style myself as a a teacher), and that we should probably part wa... See more Answering reasonable questions for free is included in my services. If the questions are however not too reasonable, then I might opt to sacrifice the customer, as opposed to charging a fee. I had this experience recently with a new direct client who expected (free) English lessons as a part of the proofreading process. After a while I respectfully told him that I was not willing to meet these expectations (considering I would not style myself as a a teacher), and that we should probably part ways. ▲ Collapse
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...within reason.
In practice, this is very rarely an issue. On the one occasion I can remember when it became unreasonable, the agency got fed up with it before I did.
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Tatty
Local time: 15:47
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Free English lessons | Feb 4, 2014 |
I've had this experience too. Once I received two silly questions from an agent passed on from the end client. I'd translated a term as "the highway code" and the question was "what is a highway, surely it means a high way". I am surprised that the agent felt it necessary to ask me.
Julian, I believe that you are mistaken on two counts. Firstly, we should use the terms: client and end client. A customer is a person who buys a standardised good or service, which is not the case of a... See more I've had this experience too. Once I received two silly questions from an agent passed on from the end client. I'd translated a term as "the highway code" and the question was "what is a highway, surely it means a high way". I am surprised that the agent felt it necessary to ask me.
Julian, I believe that you are mistaken on two counts. Firstly, we should use the terms: client and end client. A customer is a person who buys a standardised good or service, which is not the case of a translation. A translation is a service, not a good. And second, we should answer question from end clients, so as not to attract liability, within reason of course. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:47
Russian to English
+ ...
In memoriam | Literary translations | Feb 4, 2014 |
I do more literary work (novels, short stories etc.) these days than anything else, and in this field it is normal for a translation to go through two or three draft versions to which the author responds with queries that need to be answered, before the final version is agreed on. I don't charge anything extra for this unless the author introduces a large chunk of new text, in which case this is of course added to the word count.
[Edited at 2014-02-04 19:36 GMT]
| | | | | Depends on the type of question | Feb 4, 2014 |
I didn't know how to answer, because there was no context. I prefer working for end clients if at all possible, because communication is an important component. Usually I will anticipate questions and even ask some of my own - most things are clarified before I even start. During the course of translation things may crop up that are in the client's area of expertise. When the translation is done, I invite feedback which has to be reasonable. So all of this is dialogue. I'd like to have a b... See more I didn't know how to answer, because there was no context. I prefer working for end clients if at all possible, because communication is an important component. Usually I will anticipate questions and even ask some of my own - most things are clarified before I even start. During the course of translation things may crop up that are in the client's area of expertise. When the translation is done, I invite feedback which has to be reasonable. So all of this is dialogue. I'd like to have a bit of this when I work for an agency too. It makes for a better translation, a satisfied customer, and good reputation.
When I read the reasons for the poll, I have the impression that it's not about questions --- but about *being questioned*. I'm seeing the scenario of a nitpicking, distrustful client, who wants to poke holes in the work without being qualified to do so. If that is the issue - no, that is not acceptable. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I was being paid by the hour | Feb 4, 2014 |
Since I started freelancing, I haven't had any trouble like what you've mentioned. I could spend hours and days answering questions for the higher ups when I was working in-house for Toyota though. It wasn't too bad, they gave me free food, let me test drive the new cars and paid by the hour. I was more than happy to answer all their questions
By the way, HAPPY BIRTHDAY JULIAN!!!
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| Sure, why not? | Feb 4, 2014 |
A reasonable number of questions within a reasonable time frame after the project is complete, certainly. It's all part of the job, and I'd like the client to feel that his/her needs are being addressed and that his/her satisfaction is important.
I determine what is reasonable and what isn't, though. If you come back with 200 questions after 3 months, I reserve the right to charge for the time it'll take to look everything up again.
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Julian Holmes wrote: Thank you all for your valuable comments so far! This poll is one of my Monster Customer Series of quick polls. However, from the results so far (Accept 57.7%), it seems that the majority of you are quite tolerant. From bitter experience, I'm not, unfortunately. My take is this ... Also, please bear in mind the difference between 'customer' and 'client (end client).' You deliver your translation -- read your 'product' -- to the customer (LSP, agency, etc.) and they review it. If they have any questions or queries, they get back to you and ask you to review or explain parts of the translation. This part of the translation process I can live with. I will do this for 'end clients', too. The customer/client contracted me to do the translation and my response to their inquiries is 'part of the package.' Once they consider my translation 'fit for delivery' or 'deliverable' -- based upon their judgment -- they deliver it to the end client. They will not say 'This is Julian Holmes' work.' They'll, of course, deliver it as their own 'product' not mine. That's where the buck stops in my opinion, and, I don't have to do any more for the customer regarding that translation from then on unless there is a prior agreement to do so and/or this extra work is factored into the rate. So, if a customer asks me to field questions from the end client once it's left my customer's hands, then this is not acceptable simply because it's no longer my work or 'product' - it's no longer my responsibility. The contract is between me and the customer not between me and the end client. The beef I had with my monster customer over here is that all these piddly little inquires would come back from the end client to yours truly. It was obvious that the customer was sending my work to the end client without it undergoing any in-house review whatsoever. This is where, as Muriel quite rightly puts it, I 'lost my cool.' (More like blew a gasket!) The customer was basically asking me to do the work that should be done by their in-house reviewer for free. They were quite adamant about this and criticized me for my 'lack of cooperation.' And, I started blowing a few more gaskets! But that's all a thing of the past right now since I shedded this monster customer last summer. A happy end to a miserable story. Good riddance! I must add that none of my other customers over here ask me to field questions from the end client. I'm interested. Where do you all draw the line?
I made the mistake of thinking this was good business practice when I started out. I soon leanrt it was quite the opposite. Agent takes the money but no responsibility? No way. If the end client has questions, then they can be put to the agent, as professional middleman. if the agent wishes to realy the questions to me, then fine.
However, haven't worked with agencies for more than a decade. with direct clients, yes of course. But then that was not the question. So no.
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 09:47
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Losing one's cool | Feb 4, 2014 |
Muriel Vasconcellos wrote:
Unfortunately, that's part of the job--at least in my opinion. I don't like to be bothered, but I feel it's my duty. That said, I can get impatient rather quickly if the questions are unreasonable.
I recall one case in which a client insisted on engaging in a debate over whether the words in a mailing address should be translated. I lost my cool.
I remember having to put a project manager in his place (an otherwise very friendly and accommodating fellow) because he kept second-guessing my translation choices. And he was not a translator.
I reasoned my position with him over the phone but it was to no avail. I got the following line from him: “I've done the same with other translators, and you are the one who seems to have a problem with it.”
Oh, well. Call me iconoclast.
| | | | Julian Holmes
Japan
Local time: 22:47
Member (2011)
Japanese to English
| Losing one's cool, 2 | Feb 5, 2014 |
Mario Chavez wrote:
...
I remember having to put a project manager in his place (an otherwise very friendly and accommodating fellow) because he kept second-guessing my translation choices. And he was not a translator.
I reasoned my position with him over the phone but it was to no avail. I got the following line from him: “I've done the same with other translators, and you are the one who seems to have a problem with it.”
Oh, well. Call me iconoclast.
@Mario
This was exactly the same response I got from my monster customer. We were equally adamant about our positions and there was no area of agreement, which was fine with me since this led to my shedding them. Their loss my gain.
The point was that they were loading all of the work -- which they should have been doing themselves in house -- onto the translator. I heard this from another translator friend of mine who used to work for these people. He concurred, too, that the would take a mile if you gave them an inch.
Since other customers don't do this over there, it's no longer an issue, but even so a contentious one and worth sharing with my fellow translators here on Proz.
@Everyone
Thank you all for your comments and discussion, which is the chief purpose of these quick polls. Interesting result, though. 57+ percent voted 'Accept' -- you are very tolerant lot, aren't you. I'm not. I must be an iconoclast. 
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Hans Geluk
Spain
Local time: 15:47
Member (2013)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
| Accept within reason - just as you want from your dentist | Feb 5, 2014 |
I do answer most questions, and I will hardly deny doing so if it is within reason. But even if one returning customer once has more questions than normal I will not make it an issue.
Compare with your surgeon or dentist... certainly their job is to operate your leg or to place a filling, but you will want to ask a few questions for free, right?
| | | | inkweaver
Germany
Local time: 15:47
French to German
+ ...
It depends, really. I am, of course, happy to answer a few reasonable questions, either from the agency itself or from their client. However, they do have to be reasonable.
What really annoys me is when non-native speakers of German who are not translators either start questioning my choice of words and then make it all too obvious that they apparently don't even have a basic knowledge of the language but are still so convinced of their superior knowledge that they can't even be bo... See more It depends, really. I am, of course, happy to answer a few reasonable questions, either from the agency itself or from their client. However, they do have to be reasonable.
What really annoys me is when non-native speakers of German who are not translators either start questioning my choice of words and then make it all too obvious that they apparently don't even have a basic knowledge of the language but are still so convinced of their superior knowledge that they can't even be bothered to look up a word that they think they need to question in a dictionary. Happened to me last week - my translation had already got the agency's proofreader's "seal of approval", but the agency's client, a French campsite owner, asked them to forward all sorts of ridiculous questions and comments to me. Initially, I tried to be polite, but I in cases like this I tend to be a bit blunt rather quickly. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Elina Sellgren
Finland
Local time: 16:47
Member (2013)
English to Finnish
+ ...
I don't think it's free, I just include time spent on possible questions in the budget I offer, in the same way as my rates have to cover all non-translation work like sending invoices, announcing taxes, accounting. It doesn't happen too often and it doesn't really take much of my time either.
If I notice that a particular client tends to pester me a lot, or in specific kinds of projects, I raise my rate for them. Answering questions is usually just part of the whole package of my... See more I don't think it's free, I just include time spent on possible questions in the budget I offer, in the same way as my rates have to cover all non-translation work like sending invoices, announcing taxes, accounting. It doesn't happen too often and it doesn't really take much of my time either.
If I notice that a particular client tends to pester me a lot, or in specific kinds of projects, I raise my rate for them. Answering questions is usually just part of the whole package of my services and helps to create a connection to the client. ▲ Collapse
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