| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Poll: Do you coin a new term if an equivalent phrase doesn't already exist? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Julian Holmes 
Japan
Local time: 16:24
Member (2011)
Japanese to English
neilmac wrote:
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On the other hand, I don't like "onesie" or selfie", or almost any other words I can think of that end in a diminutive "-ie", for some obscure reason.
Not even a "cutie"? Especially, diminutive ones! 
| | | | Tim Drayton
Cyprus
Local time: 10:24
Turkish to English
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| A lot to be done in some pairs, indeed | Jan 22, 2014 |
Christine Andersen wrote: David Wright wrote: Tim Drayton wrote:
In legal translation, especially if one is translating from or to a language used in a country having a civil law jurisdiction and the other language in the pair is English, spoken in countries with common law jurisdictions, then precise cognate terms do not always exist and it is sometimes necessary to coin a term, if somebody has not already done so. In fact, there are cases where it is better to use a made-up word rather than a roughly cognate term, because the latter will only be an approximation and may lead a legal expert who knows the target language to assume that it is a precise equivalent. This is an issue I feel strongly about (not using rough cognates to avoid misinterpretation). What would be useful would be a means of finding out how others have already dealt with a specific expression so as to avoid a proliferation of alternatives (and hence further misunderstanding). Any suggestions, anyone? Precisely in the legal field, Danish lexicographers have been working on this question with terminology between Danish and English, and I have had the privilege of being taught by them. So you can often find things in the dictionaries. Probably the equivalent applies more or less to German and Danish, but I don't know, only that there are lexicographers at work there too. In other subject areas and language pairs, there is still a lot to be done, and there always will be as language and knowledge develop. I do try to coin an expression if I can't find an equivalent, but I search and consult others first. So thanks to all those KudoZ colleagues for answers and inspiration! It is a mistake to belive that there always will be an exact equivalent, and apparently similar idioms and proverbs may be treacherous false friends. It's a great question, Yetta, with plenty of food for thought, so thank you!
There doesn't even exist a legal Turkish-English dictionary, so, as you say, there is more to be done in other language pairs, and more call for the coining of terms in these. On the other hand, each hefty edition of the Turkish Official Gazette introduces a host of new legal terms into the language, so the situation is far from static. I am sure this applies to all languages as new legislation is framed.
[Edited at 2014-01-22 12:23 GMT]
| | | | Klára Kalamár
Romania
Local time: 10:24
English to Hungarian
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I totally agree with Muriel:
Only if it's obviously a coined term in the original text. Otherwise, I don't think it's our job to invent words; we should be working with the set that has been given to us.
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 01:24
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
That's part of the flexibility shown by a language: creation. If it's popularized, then we'll be sure abut something: it was needed.
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Giles Watson
Italy
Local time: 09:24
Italian to English
In memoriam | Pinky little fingers | Jan 22, 2014 |
Julian Holmes wrote: neilmac wrote:
....
On the other hand, I don't like "onesie" or selfie", or almost any other words I can think of that end in a diminutive "-ie", for some obscure reason. Not even a "cutie"? Especially, diminutive ones!
Or even "pinkie", in the sense of "little finger" rather than "faintly pink" (pinky)?
Getting back to the subject, vocabulary generation is as important in translation as it is in original composition, particularly in areas like journalism where there is a constant demand for new ways to express familiar ideas.
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 09:24
Spanish to English
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| No accounting for taste | Jan 22, 2014 |
Julian Holmes wrote: neilmac wrote:
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On the other hand, I don't like "onesie" or selfie", or almost any other words I can think of that end in a diminutive "-ie", for some obscure reason. Not even a "cutie"? Especially, diminutive ones!
Nope. Not even "hottie" does it for me
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 09:24
Spanish to English
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| I can handle "Y" | Jan 22, 2014 |
Giles Watson wrote: Julian Holmes wrote: neilmac wrote:
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On the other hand, I don't like "onesie" or selfie", or almost any other words I can think of that end in a diminutive "-ie", for some obscure reason. Not even a "cutie"? Especially, diminutive ones! Or even "pinkie", in the sense of "little finger" rather than "faintly pink" (pinky)?
I prefer the spelling pinky (pl. pnkies)... and now that you merntion it, for some strange reason I don't mind diminutives ending in "y", like doggy, veggy, tranny, etc. Go figure.
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neilmac wrote: Giles Watson wrote: Julian Holmes wrote: neilmac wrote:
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On the other hand, I don't like "onesie" or selfie", or almost any other words I can think of that end in a diminutive "-ie", for some obscure reason. Not even a "cutie"? Especially, diminutive ones! Or even "pinkie", in the sense of "little finger" rather than "faintly pink" (pinky)? I prefer the spelling pinky (pl. pnkies)... and now that you merntion it, for some strange reason I don't mind diminutives ending in "y", like doggy, veggy, tranny, etc. Go figure.
I always thought "Pinky" was a minor gangster in "Brighton Rock".
Irrelevantly,
Steve K.
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Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 03:24
English to Spanish
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| Inventing words | Jan 22, 2014 |
Muriel Vasconcellos wrote:
Only if it's obviously a coined term in the original text.
Otherwise, I don't think it's our job to invent words; we should be working with the set that has been given to us. Of course, my target language is English. Other languages may not have such a large vocabulary. In the case of languages that lack contemporary vocabulary, it would be a different story.
Any language user can invent or coin words. Translators are language users, so it's a given. More than that, it's a responsibility to be taken seriously.
It behooves us to tell the difference between buzzwords, unnecessary neologisms and new (and necessary) words.
Example of a newly coined phrase for best practices, which is a popular buzzphrase in American English. Instead of the clunky and inaccurate “mejores prácticas” I prefer to use métodos o procedimientos óptimos o recomendados.
Recently I've been coining equivalent and idiomatic words and phrases in Spanish to address the evolving nature of Internet security technologies. A worm is, for example, a gusano in Spanish (biologically and as a type of computer virus), but it's not my coinage. But there are several newly coined terms in the proprietary glossary I built for my client, which I hope to make generic in Spanish with increasing use.
| | | | Giles Watson
Italy
Local time: 09:24
Italian to English
In memoriam | In the pinkie | Jan 22, 2014 |
neilmac wrote:
I prefer the spelling pinky (pl. pnkies)... and now that you merntion it, for some strange reason I don't mind diminutives ending in "y", like doggy, veggy, tranny, etc. Go figure.
"Pinkie" is the spelling suggested by the Oxford Style Manual, my nostrum against customers who think their own version of English is superior to the one I am trying to sell them. It is also the standard Scots (Chambers Scots and English dictionaries) and US (Webster) spelling.
As ever, YMMV.
| | | | | There may not be an equivalent in the target language | Jan 22, 2014 |
Think of food - special national dishes, which sometimes have a neat name in the source language, but are totally unknown to speakers of the target language.
Without giving the entire recipe, it IS sometimes necessary to coin a name.
I intend to compile a list of Danish smørrebrød (open sandwiches) sometime. There are probably several already, but I can never find them when I need them.
Apart from the classics like Shooting stars, the Vet's late supper, S... See more Think of food - special national dishes, which sometimes have a neat name in the source language, but are totally unknown to speakers of the target language.
Without giving the entire recipe, it IS sometimes necessary to coin a name.
I intend to compile a list of Danish smørrebrød (open sandwiches) sometime. There are probably several already, but I can never find them when I need them.
Apart from the classics like Shooting stars, the Vet's late supper, Sunshine over Gudhjem and other delicacies...
Lots of cultural expressions and allusions can cause problems, and although I only rarely coin names for them myself, I am extremely grateful at times to others who have had the courage to do so.
Literature is another field where names definitely have to be coined at times.
I always think it is funny watching Barnaby on German TV... His German is about the same level as mine. But I can't stand Wallander in English, sorry, Kenneth Branagh and co!
By contrast the Danish subtitlers often do a brilliant job of localising and coining names and finding equivalents in Danish, which fit, even though I have never heard them before. Where they are less successful, I can ignore the subtitling, because I can hear the original dialogue... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adnan Özdemir
Türkiye
Local time: 10:24
Member (2007)
German to Turkish
+ ...
| Yes, quite often | Jan 22, 2014 |
Turkish is an ideal language for such needs (new terms, neologism etc.). I do it quite often.
Saludos/Selamlar
[Edited at 2014-01-22 22:02 GMT]
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