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How can one make a living making .04 per word for translations
Thread poster: alps
alps
alps  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:57
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks everyone for the replies Sep 28, 2005

I'd like to thank everyone who took the trouble to reply to my questions. I agree with some and I disagree with others, but unfortunately I don't have the time to comment on every single post. However, another question has come up.

At least two people mentioned productivity - lots and lots of translated words a day while maintaining a high-quality "product" level - as a means of making a living even while being paid very low rates.

See below:

Henry Hinds wrote:

Now, if you double those figures, 5,000 words per day at .04USD, you go up to $4,000 a month, and At .07USD per word, $7,000 a month.

Of course, you cannot always expect to be working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. At times it may be only a few hours several days a week or then maybe a month of marathon sessions, 70 or 80 hours a week. You can never tell.

. . .

But the key is productivity, and it is not just volume, it is volume with top quality. In addition to that, you need to keep reasonably busy, which means you need a good flow of work, not always easy to get. But if you have productivity (volume + quality) it becomes easier in time.

It can be done, but it requires a lot of hard work.


How many of you can translate 5,000 words in a day (to earn those .04USD per word) every day for, say, one week? And in how many hours per day? 5? 6? 15? 16? 70- or 80-hour weeks? And how many of you can guarantee that your 25,000-word text will be of the utmost quality when the 80-hour week is over?

I type approximately 120 words a minute. (Not when I'm translating, of course, as I need to stop and think as I type - my point is that typing is no handicap for me.) I'm fluent in both English and Portuguese - but I must humbly admit that even if I could translate, say, 625 words per hour, for 8 (near) consecutive hours during the course of five consecutive days I wouldn't be able to guarantee that my work would be flawless, or even near-flawless. (Unless, of course, I were paying a couple of other people to proof-read my translation, something that would require considerably more than .04USD per word to justify the added cost.)

What about you?

Thanks again for the replies.

Andre

[Edited at 2005-09-28 19:37]

[Edited at 2005-09-28 22:54]


 
Peter Bouillon
Peter Bouillon  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 12:57
French to German
+ ...
Just see to it that you won't get the flu Sep 28, 2005

Andre Soares wrote:

How many of you can translate 5,000 words in a day (to earn those .04USD per word) every day for, say, one week? And in how many hours per day? 5? 6? 15? 16? 70- or 80-hour weeks?


To compound that, who is going to do your marketing and book-keeping whilst you are busy hammering away at that 5,000 word daily quota?

On the other hand, it all depends on what you understand by "translation." Assume you've got a full translation memory. Assume you set the minimum match quota really really low (say, 60%) and that you correct only the barest necessary to make the suggested translations more or less fit the original. Assume, moreover, that any "new" sentence coming up is pre-translated by a machine translating software whose texts you post-edit in a similarly cursory manner. You will be able to crank out some sort of a text at really break neck speed.

This is okay by me, since I wouldn't read your texts anyway, not knowing any Portugese whatsoever. Let's just hope your prospective readers see this in a similarly upbeat vein. But enough of sarcasm.

You'll only be able to keep up the pace if your pipeline of translation jobs is constantly filled. It won't be. Sooner or later, you will come down with the flu, or there will be a week with no translation offers in it, and all the calculations with X words per day will become moot.

P.


 
df49f (X)
df49f (X)
France
Local time: 12:57
output vs. quality Sep 30, 2005

Andre Soares wrote:

Henry Hinds wrote:

Now, if you double those figures, 5,000 words per day at .04USD, you go up to $4,000 a month, and At .07USD per word, $7,000 a month.
It can be done, but it requires a lot of hard work.


How many of you can translate 5,000 words in a day (to earn those .04USD per word) every day for, say, one week? And in how many hours per day? 5? 6? 15? 16? 70- or 80-hour weeks? And how many of you can guarantee that your 25,000-word text will be of the utmost quality when the 80-hour week is over?

I type approximately 120 words a minute....


Andre, I'm with you! NOBODY can do 5000 words/day everyday AND do it well!! (3000 is more reasonable and less for difficult jobs where a lot of research is needed) Saying you can do it steadily is really nothing to brag about!
In our business, productivity as described by some here does NOT equate quality! So it's a choice: you work too much, too quick and badly at low rates for cheap agencies who don't care about quality, or at a reasonable pace (i.e. you still have time for a life other than translation) and well at high rates... After 20 years of full-time (sole income and without a rich spouse) freelancing, I can assure you that the latter option works very well, provided of course you are a good translator. Want proof? I never charge less than 0,14 Eurocent to agencies or less than 0,18 to direct clients, and I've been paying anywhere between 20,000 and 23,000 Euro in income tax (in France i.e. high rates) for the past 15 years...

dominique


 
John Walsh
John Walsh  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 12:57
Italian to English
NOBODY? Oct 1, 2005

df49f wrote:

NOBODY can do 5000 words/day everyday AND do it well!! (3000 is more reasonable and less for difficult jobs where a lot of research is needed) Saying you can do it steadily is really nothing to brag about!


dominique

Now that's a big statement! How can you say NOBODY can translate 5,000 words a day and do it well? Do you know EVERYBODY's production level? I'm comfortable with 500 words per hour if the translation requires an average amount of research, more if no research is required and I can assure you that the quality is good. If it wasn't good then I wouldn't have as many translations as I do. My customers come back and most of those are agencies and yes as you say there are many agencies out there who rely on quantity and not quality but that's not the case with the agencies I work with. They demand professional high-quality translations.
Now, do I always do 5,000 words a day? No, of course not. It depends on how much work there is to do and how much I feel like doing.


 
Daniele Martoglio
Daniele Martoglio  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:57
Polish to Italian
+ ...
if JOHN is 1st Mr. NOBODY, i'm the 2nd... Oct 2, 2005

df49f wrote:

NOBODY can do 5000 words/day everyday AND do it well!! (3000 is more reasonable and less for difficult jobs where a lot of research is needed) Saying you can do it steadily is really nothing to brag about!


dominique


I say the same! Do you know EVERYBODY's production level?

I'm comfortable with 500 words per hour if the translation requires a BIG amount of research, and MUCH more if no research is required and I can assure you that the quality is good.

I NEVER lost a client (agency or direct) for matters of quality, or i never had problems with quality or errors in my translations..

NOT ALL BRAIN ARE EQUAL. Don't forget it. Speed of translation depends of "working speed" of brain.

Anyway, i can undersign also the last sentence of John:


Now, do I always do 5,000 words a day? No, of course not. It depends on how much work there is to do and how much I feel like doing.


Often who is genius is also lazy.. he needs inspiration..

Daniele


 
df49f (X)
df49f (X)
France
Local time: 12:57
a change in perspective Oct 2, 2005

[quote]Daniele Martoglio wrote:
I'm comfortable with 500 words per hour if the translation requires a BIG amount of research, and MUCH more if no research is required and I can assure you that the quality is good.

Daniele


OK let's take a different perspective, to link back to the subject of this thread.
1. 500 words an hour is prefectly standard, you're both right, and that is more or less my pace too (depending on difficulty, familiairy with subject, research necessary, and the condition of my neurons).
2. You need to work for 10 hours to do 5000 words.
3. At a low rate, say 0,04 Eurocent or worse 0,04 US$, you need 10 hours to earn 200$/day.
4. At a decent rate of 0,12 you only need 6 hours and 3000 words to earn 360$/day. Even at 0,10 i.e. 300$/day, you still earn more in a 6 hour day.
5. And you still have ample time to re-read and correct yourself with a clear, non-fatigued brain,... and also to live your life...

Conclusion: if you are as good as you say you are, then don't sell yourselves short, demand higher rates and refuse to work at dumping prices: you'll earn more by working less! and you can even afford to be selective and refuse jobs at low rates!

And I repeat that nobody can work 5000 wd/10 hr/day EVERYDAY and do it WELL everyday: means that you have to re-read, proofread, correct and enhance your text during hours 11 and 12 when your brain is exhausted, plus the fact that during hours 8, 9 & 10, we're simply not as productive and the 500 wd/hr pace necessarily slows down - We all do our 5000 wd/10 hr/day once in a while, but certainly not day in and day out (caveat: things maybe different with CAT tools?? but I wouldn't know since I don't use any).

df


 
NancyLynn
NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 07:57
Member (2002)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
Proofread during hours 1 and 2, not 11 and 12 Oct 2, 2005

I agree of course with Dominique as I am in the same position as she is: even with my rates I turn down work every week. Why? Should I work like a horse because all the work is available? No. I pick and choose, work for reasonable rates, and have time for bookkeeping, housework, children, and days off.

But I just wanted to point out that proofreading your work at the end of along day won't net a very good translation. Better to switch off the computer, do your dishes and go to bed,
... See more
I agree of course with Dominique as I am in the same position as she is: even with my rates I turn down work every week. Why? Should I work like a horse because all the work is available? No. I pick and choose, work for reasonable rates, and have time for bookkeeping, housework, children, and days off.

But I just wanted to point out that proofreading your work at the end of along day won't net a very good translation. Better to switch off the computer, do your dishes and go to bed, and get up earlier the next day if necessary to reread your work with fresh eyes.

Nancy
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df49f (X)
df49f (X)
France
Local time: 12:57
high rates, quality work and quality of life Oct 2, 2005

NancyLynn wrote:

But I just wanted to point out that proofreading your work at the end of along day won't net a very good translation. Better to switch off the computer, do your dishes and go to bed, and get up earlier the next day if necessary to reread your work with fresh eyes.
Nancy


Hi Nancy
You're absolutely right about waiting for fresh eyes and sharp mind the next morning to proofread the previous day's work! This is also what I do and even more so when I've had to put in 10 hours of translation to meet a deadline. And we calculate our "output", we include the proofreading/correcting/rewriting time.

But, the problem facing the 5000 wd/day/everyday stakhanovites is that (without even mentioning that your eyes can't be that fresh or your mind that clear if you've been working 10 hours/day every day of the week) they can't afford to do that ... otherwise how are they going to fit in another 5000 wd/10 hours on THAT new day, if they've already used up hours 1 and 2 ?!!
(I'm stretching things a bit of course, as usual! but couldn't resist the temptation!!)

Which leads us back to the question of quality of our translations, and of charging higher rates so we can work less and better... and still have time to live!

bon dimanche!
df


 
John Walsh
John Walsh  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 12:57
Italian to English
The real surprise... Oct 2, 2005

df49f wrote:

I never charge less than 0,14 Eurocent to agencies or

dominique


... is that you get 0.14 per word through agencies.


 
alps
alps  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:57
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I'm with you, Dominique Oct 3, 2005

Even geniuses need to give their brains a break.

500 words in one hour? It shouldn't be too much of a problem.

5,000 words in one day? We're beginning to stretch things quite a bit.

25,000 words in a week? I wouldn't hire a translator who claims s/he can deliver - on his/her own - top-notch work within that "high productivity" framework even for .01USD a word. I wouldn't trust the results.

Additionally, as Pierre said in a previous post, the
... See more
Even geniuses need to give their brains a break.

500 words in one hour? It shouldn't be too much of a problem.

5,000 words in one day? We're beginning to stretch things quite a bit.

25,000 words in a week? I wouldn't hire a translator who claims s/he can deliver - on his/her own - top-notch work within that "high productivity" framework even for .01USD a word. I wouldn't trust the results.

Additionally, as Pierre said in a previous post, the translator will end up sick and up to his/her neck in medical bills. . .

Not worth it for anyone involved.

Now, if the client pays you a good rate, you can get your own proof-readers to guarantee a top-notch translation whenever you get a monumental super-rush job. The client will pay more, but s/he will get a solid translation in return. And you won't get sick and won't have to worry about medical bills and zinc losanges.

Thank you for your responses, Dominique.

Andre
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John Walsh
John Walsh  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 12:57
Italian to English
. Oct 3, 2005


25,000 words in a week? I wouldn't hire a translator who claims s/he can deliver - on his/her own - top-notch work within that "high productivity" framework even for .01USD a word. I wouldn't trust the results.



Andre

I would never trust a translator who charges only .01 a word in any case.

You wouldn't give a job to a translator who claims s/he can deliver 25,000 words in a week? So if you were running your own agency and you had a client who needed a 25,000 word document translated in a week you would refuse? No problem. There are plenty of experienced Proz members who would be willing to take your place.

[Edited at 2005-10-03 13:53]


 
E.LA
E.LA
Spanish to German
+ ...
good calculation Oct 11, 2005

You made a very good and clear calculation of the reality regarding Proz-job-offers. But nobody wake up!

It has nothing to do with productivity etc. etc., only with globalization and the dumping prize effect, with the result that EU, US and Canadian translators stay hungry if they only live from these jobs!

Sure, if an agency get the job made by somebody living in a cheap country for cheap prize, he will take this translator.

But we translators living in EU
... See more
You made a very good and clear calculation of the reality regarding Proz-job-offers. But nobody wake up!

It has nothing to do with productivity etc. etc., only with globalization and the dumping prize effect, with the result that EU, US and Canadian translators stay hungry if they only live from these jobs!

Sure, if an agency get the job made by somebody living in a cheap country for cheap prize, he will take this translator.

But we translators living in EU, US and other expensive countries should wake up!!!!!!!!!

Or saying it in another manner: We can forget 95% of the Proz-job-offers. It is frustrating.
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Ralf Lemster
Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 12:57
English to German
+ ...
Good and bad calculations Oct 11, 2005

Hi E.LA,
But we translators living in EU, US and other expensive countries should wake up!!!!!!!!!

No independent entrepreneur should need any wake-up calls.
One of the probable causes is that many freelancers have no idea of their costs - as indicated by many questions posted in these forums ("how much should I charge for X").

Sitting down to calculate how much you need to charge (IOW: how far you can afford to go down) is not a chore, but a core element of running a business. Whether you can achieve your target price (with your existing customer base) is a different story, but unless you know your minimum and target, you're stabbing in the dark.

Blaming globalisation and/or ProZ.com is easier, of course.

Best regards,
Ralf


 
John Walsh
John Walsh  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 12:57
Italian to English
Soooooo true! Oct 11, 2005

Ralf Lemster wrote:


Sitting down to calculate how much you need to charge (IOW: how far you can afford to go down) is not a chore, but a core element of running a business. Whether you can achieve your target price (with your existing customer base) is a different story, but unless you know your minimum and target, you're stabbing in the dark.

Blaming globalisation and/or ProZ.com is easier, of course.

Best regards,
Ralf


And far too many businesses/freelancers fail to do that.


 
Sylvaine de Tourdonnet
Sylvaine de Tourdonnet  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:57
Spanish to French
+ ...
What is your freelance model? Yes, Todd, I agree, that is the question Oct 27, 2005

I’m happy to see that my personal conclusions about what acceptable rates and work load should be match many opinions expressed in that forum.
I personally charge 0.10 Euros per source word for English and Spanish to French and my daily capacity is between 2000 and 3000 words.

Now, I found very interesting what Todd said about the coexistence of several markets.

So, if your freelance model is quality-driven and not price-driven, you don’t have to worry that our profession is going to "hell in a handbasket" when you see job offers far below your target rate. The Internet has brought different translation markets into very sudden contact, that's all. Simply shrug your shoulders and say "no worries... not my market!".

[Edited at 2005-09-28 02:05]


I think any translator should take enough time to determine what his/her specific market is. For that, it can be useful to write down what you expect from that job.

As far as I’m concerned, these are my priorities:

- Quality rather than quantity: I am very perfectionist and I hate being forced to send back a job which has not been properly checked. This means:
-I always translate towards my native language (French)
-I never accept more than 3,000 words a day
-I don’t work if I am not feeling very well, if I am tired, etc.
-I refuse a job if it is not within my skills.
- A fair salary: I am a qualified translator (post-graduate) with experience (8 years). I think 30€/hour (i.e. 0.10€/word) is a fair minimum rate.
- Family life: I want to be able to be in front of my child’s school every day at 4.30PM. Work over the weekend must be an exception. This means:
-No urgent jobs
-I never accept more than 3.000 words a day
- How much money do I need/want to earn? I live in Spain where taxes and healthcare costs are quite low (compared to France for eg.). I have few professional costs: I keep for myself roughly 2/3 of what I bill. My husband work. I think that I need a minimum salary of €1,500/month. To earn that minimum amount, I need to translate 22,5000 words/month (half time). I have a maximum capacity of 45,000 words(full time). Thus, I can expect to win between 1.500 and 3.000 €/month. I don’t want less…I don’t need more.


You may think: “That’s fine but between what you want and what the real market is, there is a huge gap.” Well, I always prospect new clients with these priorities in mind and until now, it has been working quite well: my lowest price in the last five years has been €0.09/word. I have few clients but they are very loyal to me and pay well. It's true that there is no market visibility in that job for many of us and I am not an exception: very often, I don't know what I am going to do next week. But now that I have settled these priorities, each month, when I get over the threshold of 22,500 words, I start to relax for the rest of the month. If for any reason, I do not reach that threshold, I use that free time to do more prospecting.

Obviously, through that discussion, many different freelance models appear. We all live in different countries with different laws, purchasing powers, tax systems, etc. Each one of us has a different background. John, it seem that your priorities are the experience you get and the great interest you find in translation rather than rates or time. Why not?


 
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