Overestimation of word count by client Thread poster: James Greenfield
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James Greenfield 
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:54
Member (2013)
French to English
+ ...
Hi,
I received a request to translate a PDF document that the client estimated at 9,000 words. When I then used my OCR software it turned out it was more like 7,000 words. I accepted the task and they issued the purchase order with the price according to their word count of 9,000 words. I am now thinking the right thing would be to tell them that they overestimated the source word count in case they wanted to adjust the total price accordingly. What do you think?
Thanks,
James
| | | | | I would mention it to the client | Feb 8, 2016 |
Perhaps you charge extra for the hassle of dealing with a PDF document.
Is it possible they have factored that into the price?
[Edited at 2016-02-08 14:11 GMT]
| | | | | Don't jump the gun | Feb 8, 2016 |
Their software may have picked up content that yours did not detect, such as tables or captions. I would say do the translation and if you still believe the word count was too high, you can always pleasantly surprise them when you invoice.
| | | | Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 06:54
Italian to English
+ ...
| Right thing to do | Feb 8, 2016 |
Tell them imo
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:54
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| I think that would be right | Feb 8, 2016 |
James Greenfield wrote:
Hi,
I received a request to translate a PDF document that the client estimated at 9,000 words. When I then used my OCR software it turned out it was more like 7,000 words. I accepted the task and they issued the purchase order with the price according to their word count of 9,000 words. I am now thinking the right thing would be to tell them that they overestimated the source word count in case they wanted to adjust the total price accordingly. What do you think?
Thanks,
James
I think that would be right.
Maybe they're testing you to see if you're honest 
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 05:54
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Are you 100% sure of the word count? | Feb 8, 2016 |
How good is your OCRed file? Is it possible that words have been run together? Or missed? It might be better to wait until you've done the job and then give a discount if it really turns out to be true that you didn't need to charge for so many words. I would tell them straight away that I might be able to discount the final price, but I wouldn't commit to it at this time.
As said, there should be a surcharge for dealing with anything other than a very short PDF file that isn't very... See more How good is your OCRed file? Is it possible that words have been run together? Or missed? It might be better to wait until you've done the job and then give a discount if it really turns out to be true that you didn't need to charge for so many words. I would tell them straight away that I might be able to discount the final price, but I wouldn't commit to it at this time.
As said, there should be a surcharge for dealing with anything other than a very short PDF file that isn't very easily converted. For a long scanned one you'll be losing out by charging your normal per-word rate alone.
[Edited at 2016-02-08 14:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | James Greenfield
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:54
Member (2013)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Sheila Wilson wrote:
How good is your OCRed file? Is it possible that words have been run together? Or missed? It might be better to wait until you've done the job and then give a discount if it really turns out to be true that you didn't need to charge for so many words. I would tell them straight away that I might be able to discount the final price, but I wouldn't commit to it at this time.
As said, there should be a surcharge for dealing with anything other than a very short PDF file that isn't very easily converted. For a long scanned one you'll be losing out by charging your normal per-word rate alone.
[Edited at 2016-02-08 14:14 GMT]
Thanks Sheila, I've done the job now, and I think 7,000 words is about right rather than 9,000 which was their estimate. It is a long scanned document, but I don't know if I am justified in accepting their estimate of 9,000 words on account of the fact it did require more work as it was a dead PDF.
| | | | | Where did they get their word count from? | Feb 8, 2016 |
Maybe they have the file as a Word doc?
My first reaction was, sure, tell them. But then, I agree with Sheila, it is probably better to wait as there might be something you have missed or that was not converted, are there any diagrams, tables?
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James Greenfield
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:54
Member (2013)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Gabriele Demuth wrote:
Maybe they have the file as a Word doc?
My first reaction was, sure, tell them. But then, I agree with Sheila, it is probably better to wait as there might be something you have missed or that was not converted, are there any diagrams, tables?
I have done the translation now. The target word count is 6,613 words which backs up my estimate of 7,000 words for the source document. I haven't missed any diagrams or tables. I think I should probably tell the client even though there was some extra work with the dead PDF.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 05:54
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| You are only justified in charging what you quoted | Feb 8, 2016 |
James Greenfield wrote:
I've done the job now, and I think 7,000 words is about right rather than 9,000 which was their estimate. It is a long scanned document, but I don't know if I am justified in accepting their estimate of 9,000 words on account of the fact it did require more work as it was a dead PDF.
You have a legal right to accept 9,000 words as the wordcount, although ethically your right to payment for 2,000 non-existent words is questionable. But you certainly don't have the right to apply a surcharge now, when none was mentioned beforehand.
If you value this client, I would suggest using the real wordcount and charging just for that, at the same time mentioning that future dead PDFs will incur a surcharge (of x amount per page; y amount per hour of your time; or z percent per word). If you think you're unlikely to work for this client again, you have every right to charge the full quoted amount (although I personally wouldn't do that).
| | | | Jenae Spry
United States
Local time: 21:54
French to English
| 9k source words or target words? | Feb 8, 2016 |
James Greenfield wrote:
I have done the translation now. The target word count is 6,613 words which backs up my estimate of 7,000 words for the source document.
It looks like your combinations are FR>EN and SP>EN. English is about 20% shorter than French and Spanish. So if the French/Spanish is 9,000 words, the English should be about 1800 words less (7200). If your translation is 6600, I'd say they are more correct than you are.
When I estimate a word count using OCR, I typically add 20% to the word count because I find that OCR doesn't pick up everything and it's usually around 15%-20% off.
It also depends on whether the PO was written per English word and they guessed it would be 9k words. In that case, the client would generally update the PO at the end. If it was based on the source word count, then again, it's expected that the source is higher than the target.
Edited to add: It's still important to clarify with the client whether the word count is supposed to be source or target. In general, I always bill on target word count for PDFs to avoid this issue so that might be a good idea moving forward but this is after the fact, you'll need to stick to whatever was agreed. I also have a separate source and target word count to account for the contraction/expansion rates.
[Edited at 2016-02-08 21:20 GMT]
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:54
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| What's your reputation worth? | Feb 8, 2016 |
James Greenfield wrote:
I have done the translation now. The target word count is 6,613 words which backs up my estimate of 7,000 words for the source document.
As others have suggested, first clear up whether their estimate was based on source or target!
If it is clear that you and the client are using the same language as a basis for the count then I don't see how you can not inform the client. You can't charge them for work you didn't do. I think you accept this and that's why you started this topic, to allow us to persuade you that this is indeed the right thing to do.
When there is some uncertainty in the count, my standard undertaking to clients is that if the final count of characters is less than the estimated count in my quote I will invoice the client for the lower figure. It's no big deal - after all if there are fewer source characters then I finish earlier than scheduled, which is positive.
Putting aside (just for a moment and only for the sake of argument) the ethics of the situation, consider the client's reaction if they were to ever find out that you charged them for 30% more words than actually existed without telling them. Your name is mud, right? Your good reputation is worth more than two hundred euro or so.
Conversely, if you tell them then they will probably appreciate your honesty. It would provide them with an additional reason to use your services in future.
If you had to OCR the document you could try to charge them for that, but if it wasn't in your initial quote then they may refuse to pay.
Regards
Dan
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SBlack wrote:
Their software may have picked up content that yours did not detect, such as tables or captions. I would say do the translation and if you still believe the word count was too high, you can always pleasantly surprise them when you invoice.
Yes, first make sure the word count really was overestimated as opposed to something or other not being included in the count or your software relying on a different definition of word than theirs did.
Once confirmed, notify the client, but you don't need to be apologetic just because the client made a mistake that worked in your favour, it's not your fault. I'm mentioning this because some people intuitively pick up the vibe just like dogs do, and it may influence their view of you on a subconscious level.
Congrats on being honest.
| | | | Inga Petkelyte
Portugal
Local time: 05:54
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
In such cases, I normally advise the client of the dicrepancy in thw wordcount.
Just last week, one of several files of the same client showed a different wordcount from the indicated by the client. The client rechecked and came back with the initial wordcount saying it might be happening because of different counting tools. The mismatch was of several dozens of words, and my concern was not really the wordcount itself but whether nothing was lost on the way. With the client's assurance, I... See more In such cases, I normally advise the client of the dicrepancy in thw wordcount.
Just last week, one of several files of the same client showed a different wordcount from the indicated by the client. The client rechecked and came back with the initial wordcount saying it might be happening because of different counting tools. The mismatch was of several dozens of words, and my concern was not really the wordcount itself but whether nothing was lost on the way. With the client's assurance, I did and delivered the translation.
With the PDF wordcount, it may happen that broken words (with gaps between letters after conversion) are counted as separate words. As it's been already told, do the translation first and then come to a conclusion. ▲ Collapse
| | | | James Greenfield
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:54
Member (2013)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks everyone | Feb 9, 2016 |
Thanks, I informed the client that they had overestimated the source document word count and they appreciated my honesty.
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