| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] | Different rates for the domestic+foreign markets? Thread poster: S_G_C
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 12:39
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| Are we now... | Nov 16, 2015 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote: Daryo wrote: Peter Zhuang wrote:
...and thus Machiavellian. "Machiavellian" is often used in a way that has nothing to do with Machiavelli, you don't need to contribute to that. I think the usage here is quite unexceptionable.
Are we now discussing the difference between "Machiavellian" and "machiavellian"?
| | | | | Thanks for checking | Nov 17, 2015 |
liviu roth wrote: Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
English > Romanian: USD .10/hr Sample size: 814
English > German: USD .12/hr Sample size: 2477 Earning $.12/hr will bankrupt me in less than a month!  )))))) I know you meant .12/word, but it looks funny !
Yep. Thanks. At least you checked.
[Edited at 2015-11-17 00:18 GMT]
| | | | Peter Zhuang
Germany
Local time: 12:39
German to English
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| Eh. Wrong tree. | Nov 17, 2015 |
Daryo wrote:
Could we go back now to the main point of this thread? Which was about price discrimination and segmented markets ....
It is rather amusing that I have to defend my usage of a word that has been so clearly defined.
The English language is fluid and, in a way, democratic. So if you find this definition of Machiavellian (ie. cunning) objectionable, raise your concern with dictionaries and the press.
As I've said, I can't do anything about it. But until the majority of English speakers discard this definition, I will keep using it as such.
[Edited at 2015-11-17 16:35 GMT]
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 13:39
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER
Since I opened the thread, I have sent another 50 e-mails or so, trying to find clients. Today, I got a reply from a UK-based company, they are interested in two of the fields I work with. They offered me something like 0.023 EUR/source word, which is way better than my local offers. However, I declined the collaboration.
It is the maximum rate that the agency says they afford to pay, due to "end client budget considerations".
So what can I say...
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S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 13:39
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER | And the local market... | Nov 20, 2015 |
As for the local market, I found a favorable review regarding one agency. I sent them my CV and got the usual question, "what is your rate for 2,000 characters with spaces?" I gave them a - well, let's say - normal rate for two specific fields, even in Romania. Never heard from them since.
| | | | | Give it time | Nov 20, 2015 |
I have found agencies who answer quickly and have immediate work usually don't pay much as they struggle to find translators.
Do you find that agencies or clients may offer you less because of where you live, they may automatically think of it as a cheaper country to outsource to?
| | | | Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 06:39
Romanian to English
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| location matters | Nov 20, 2015 |
Gabriele Demuth wrote:
Do you find that agencies or clients may offer you less because of where you live, they may automatically think of it as a cheaper country to outsource to?
Actually, this is what Sorana wants to point out.
Yesterday I received an offer from an agency in the UK to translate a short document. They offered $.08/word, which I turned down because it is less than half of what I charge. I bet that they would offer $.02 or less for the same translation done in Romania.
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 13:39
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER | It's not time | Nov 20, 2015 |
Gabriele Demuth wrote:
I have found agencies who answer quickly and have immediate work usually don't pay much as they struggle to find translators.
Do you find that agencies or clients may offer you less because of where you live, they may automatically think of it as a cheaper country to outsource to?
Thanks, Gabriele, but I have been in the business since August, 2005, so time is not exactly my friend right now...
Yes, I am sure of that, I mentioned my "adventure" with a proz.com-listed agency in this very thread.
Because:
1. I have attended four years of translation-oriented studies and graduated with flying colors.
2. I hold a sworn translator's authorization, which can now be used abroad, not only in Romania, where it was issued.
3. I have passed several translations tests, if I hadn't been qualified, that wouldn't have happened.
4. My full name is on Google, proving some of my experience and that my references are valid.
5. Apart from English, I used to speak and write perfect French - unfortunately, the demand for French has gotten way too low for me to still pretend to know it perfectly (I'm out of practice, so to say).
The only drawbacks are that
1. I live in Romania.
2. I am not as CAT-friendly as I should be (I haven't yet figured out how to use MemoQ and my Trados version is outdated).
3. There are far too many Romanian translators on the market, with colleges producing more and more graduates every year.
And the RON (or leu)-USD (American Dollar) exchange rate has recently "jumped", when I last checked, one dollar equaled around 3.3 to 3.5 RON, now one dollar equals more than 4 RON.
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S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 13:39
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER
liviu roth wrote:
I bet that they would offer $.02 or less for the same translation done in Romania.
My point exactly.
I don't know how professional my local peers are. But what I do know is that I have seen tens of them offering their services not for peanuts, but for peanut crumbs. It's the reality they have grown up with. Maybe I shall write an article on the matter - for the interested public.
liviu, next time, send them over to me, then we'll see if reality confirms our suspicions.
[Edited at 2015-11-20 15:39 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-11-20 16:04 GMT]
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You said that you have applied to 50 agencies since the start of this threat and one came forward and offered you a low rate - I meant that 20 days is not much time to make drastic changes
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 13:39
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER | E-mails sent | Nov 21, 2015 |
Gabriele Demuth wrote: You said that you have applied to 50 agencies since the start of this threat and one came forward and offered you a low rate - I meant that 20 days is not much time to make drastic changes
Gabriele, there is a large database of potential clients right here, on proz.com. In the past, I screened it like three or four times. I targeted my language pairs and I've primarily chosen those companies located in the US, Canada, and Australia, then those companies located in Western Europe, then those companies located in such countries as Israel or Egypt, then those companies located in Eastern Europe.
And I did this with one other site as well.
This happened in 2012-2013 and less frequently afterwards.
These 50 emails are just the most recent ones, not the only ones.
If I go here: http://www.proz.com/translation-companies/
and select Romanian as a working language, here is what I get:
2466 results found - not all of them are valid, but let's say 2000 are.
So, if in 2012-2013, the highest rate that I have been offered was 0.05 USD/source word, and at the end of 2015, I am being offered 0.023 EUR/source word, where does that sit, really?
Like I've said before, my time for waiting is up.
| | | | | What you can do. | Nov 24, 2015 |
Giving up might be a sensible option, I don't know. For me, with my MA in art history, I could never earn nearly as much money or earn it nearly as easily as with freelance translating.
If you do not want to give up or there are no viable alternative prospects for work, I would have accepted the terribly paid project for 0.02+ EUR/ word, because terrible is relative and tripling your average earnings is clearly a major step forward, regardless of what anyone else says here. And you ... See more Giving up might be a sensible option, I don't know. For me, with my MA in art history, I could never earn nearly as much money or earn it nearly as easily as with freelance translating.
If you do not want to give up or there are no viable alternative prospects for work, I would have accepted the terribly paid project for 0.02+ EUR/ word, because terrible is relative and tripling your average earnings is clearly a major step forward, regardless of what anyone else says here. And you need the money.
Some people say that if you accept low-paid jobs, then you won't have time left to look for work and that clients never accept increases in rates. However, I don't think either is really true (there will always be slow spells and from my own work I know that the second assertion is patently untrue ). In my experience, the only good way to increase your rates is to put yourself in the position that you have to, i.e., to have too much work at your current rates, so that you can convincingly demand ("take it or leave it") higher rates from new clients and gradually increase rates with your existing clients (or part with them).
I don't know if the concept of "fair" rates makes any sense in the real world, but I really don't care. See to it that you keep earning more while getting busier or staying busy.
From reading the forums, my understanding is that mass-mailings to agencies are extremely ineffective and you need to actually register in agencies' own systems in order to have a significant chance of receiving a request for an offer from them some time in the next 1-2 years.
Actively pursue outsourced projects from colleagues in countries with a higher cost of living (some of whom may also be native in your non-native languages and prefer not to do translations into Romanian themselves).
Look for direct clients (= particularly French- or English-speaking small businesses operating in Romania or expatriates living in Romania: every European capital has an American, British and French expatriate community and these often feature pretty close-knit professional and private networks).
Try to let clients start the negotiations about rates. This will be to your advantage, because nothing can stop you from rejecting offers that are too low, and they are quite likely to propose a substantially higher rate than you would have thought. If you have to start the rate negotiations (as in the case of agency forms), then I would bid significantly higher than the minimum fee that would be of interest to you and be sure to keep updating your rate information as your rates increase over time.
I think the two key facts to remember are:
(1) There are dozens or hundreds of translators for Romanian earning rates that allow them to live reasonably comfortably in countries with a high cost of living, and there are heaps of Romanian projects being sold by agencies for the same prices as other languages (or even more, where Romanian translation pairs are categorized as exotic, as in Liviu's case). That is to say, what you want to do can be done, at least given the right circumstances.
(2) There is a gigantic supply of Romanian translators willing and able to do good work for extremely low rates, because of the economic situation in Romania (and that means that basically any project posted in the Internet or any project outsourced by an agency that regularly works with Romanian translators or by a colleague who is interested in exploiting other colleagues is very unlikely to be financially interesting).
So it is probably extremely difficult to succeed as a RomanianEnglish/ French>Romanian translator, but it is by no means impossible.
While some clients may (or actually "do", as you have made clear) really have something like a written or mental table with different rates to expect or demand from translators living in Romania or elsewhere, a sizeable portion (and I would think the vast majority) do not.
[Edited at 2015-11-24 09:53 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 13:39
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER | Why not lucrative | Nov 29, 2015 |
Thank you, Michael, for your kind words.
However, before working for that company, I would have had to upgrade to Trados Studio 2015, it's the only CAT accepted.
Not only that, but the Romanian government decided it's short on retirement money, so it cancelled one facility it had so far granted to those freelancers also functioning as employees, regardless of them having a full-time or a part-time labor contract. Namely, the minimum 10.5% contribution to the retirement ... See more Thank you, Michael, for your kind words.
However, before working for that company, I would have had to upgrade to Trados Studio 2015, it's the only CAT accepted.
Not only that, but the Romanian government decided it's short on retirement money, so it cancelled one facility it had so far granted to those freelancers also functioning as employees, regardless of them having a full-time or a part-time labor contract. Namely, the minimum 10.5% contribution to the retirement fund.
I am one of these freelancers, a long time ago, some relatives of mine needed me to help them out with some office and translation work and legally hired me as one of their employees. Although, at present, our collaboration has almost ceased, my contract is still valid. This allowed me to avoid the double retirement taxation - both as an employee, and as a freelancer. But, starting with 2016, this will no longer apply, and I will have to pay the minimum 10.5% out of my net yearly income.
So, for me, under these circumstances, the 0.02 EUR/source word, albeit higher than the usual local rates, would not have helped that much.
Like I said before, such offers might be good, maybe even great, for a younger translator, who doesn't have to pay any rent or bank installments or who doesn't mind sharing the accommodation or who doesn't have too many worries about what and when to pay. ▲ Collapse
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 13:39
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER | Good luck in 2016 | Jan 4, 2016 |
Guys, it's 2016, I will take this opportunity to wish you all good luck and best of chances with your financial prospects for this year.
I am getting ready to close down my business, just have to fill in and hand in some forms and statements. I'm deeply saddened about the situation, but I've hit the bottomest of levels, if I may say so. It happened before and it was awful. It's even more awful now.
Thank you all for your contribution to this and my other threads.
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