| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | Proz publishing the ads with exploitative rates Thread poster: Sandesh Ghimire
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Diana Obermeyer 
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:00
Member (2013)
German to English
+ ...
Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
Preventing clients from posting any budget information in the job postings was evaluated and discussed back in 2010, but many translators were against this restriction, arguing that they preferred to be able to filter or ignore low budget jobs, thus avoiding the effort of sending a proposal that had little hope of being accepted.
I think that's a very fair point and would agree with this stance.
There are different translation markets and they attract different service providers. Live and let live.
I'd rather see budget information that prevents me from wasting my time.
If someone else is happy to work at that price, so be it. We operate in different markets. We are not in direct competition with each other.
What has been troubling me far more this past week is an outsourcer who (apparently) is not able to pay translators due to restrictions placed on international money transfers out of his country being allowed to continue posting jobs ***which he will evidently not be able to pay for on completion due to the same restrictions on international money transfers.***
That is sickening.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:00
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Here's what would happen | Apr 18, 2015 |
- Developed-world translators achieve regulation of rates.
- Translators in developing countries no longer have a cost advantage.
- With no difference in cost, clients switch to developed-world "native speaker" translators with more impressive skill sets.
- Developing world translators lose their livelihood.
- Developed-world translators can now afford that second holiday.
- The world is... a better place?
This is rent-seeking behaviour,... See more
- Developed-world translators achieve regulation of rates.
- Translators in developing countries no longer have a cost advantage.
- With no difference in cost, clients switch to developed-world "native speaker" translators with more impressive skill sets.
- Developing world translators lose their livelihood.
- Developed-world translators can now afford that second holiday.
- The world is... a better place?
This is rent-seeking behaviour, pure and simple. Translators in developed countries using political weapons to gather economic benefits to themselves without doing anything productive to earn it.
Arrogating resources from those weaker than myself? I'm not that desperate, thank you.
Regards
Dan ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sandesh Ghimire
Nepal
Local time: 20:45
Nepali to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | This is an enlightenment for me | Apr 18, 2015 |
Thanks everyone. I had never thought it could get this insightful.
I have a feeling that the jobs (link of whose I had put here and I was asked to delete) could have traveled several layers before it landed on the agency that posted it. This always happens in Indian markets with some exceptions. I mean there are at least two middlemen between the end client and the translator.
The exceptions are that there are few (note, just few) agencies who are professional and offer standard r... See more Thanks everyone. I had never thought it could get this insightful.
I have a feeling that the jobs (link of whose I had put here and I was asked to delete) could have traveled several layers before it landed on the agency that posted it. This always happens in Indian markets with some exceptions. I mean there are at least two middlemen between the end client and the translator.
The exceptions are that there are few (note, just few) agencies who are professional and offer standard rates. So I don't agree with you when you say in certain countries (India being one), they offer low rates because of low cost of living.
I have two points to make- firstly, translations can’t be as cheap as they are making it and secondly, there should be some benchmarking to do about the rates if possible in a bid to dissuade these in-betweens.
Thanks ▲ Collapse
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There's a new job posted on Proz today asking for the translation of 10,000+ words "pro bono" (i.e. unpaid) in no particular hurry, with the suggestion (not a promise) of being included on their list of paid translators at some time in the future if the translation is found satisfactory. That's the longest unpaid translation test I've ever heard of ...
I see that, by this morning, 19 people had submitted a "quote" for this "job".
[Edited at 2015-04-19 08:34 GMT]
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Dan Lucas wrote:
- Developed-world translators achieve regulation of rates.
- Translators in developing countries no longer have a cost advantage.
- With no difference in cost, clients switch to developed-world "native speaker" translators with more impressive skill sets.
- Developing world translators lose their livelihood.
- Developed-world translators can now afford that second holiday.
- The world is... a better place?
This is rent-seeking behaviour, pure and simple. Translators in developed countries using political weapons to gather economic benefits to themselves without doing anything productive to earn it. Arrogating resources from those weaker than myself? I'm not that desperate, thank you. Regards Dan
Here's how I see it:
German to English for USD .04/word is rubbish, no matter who does it or where they live.
Why the argument about developing and developed countries? Unfortunately, you can find offers like these from anywhere these days. Offers like these often come from middlemen.
Most German>English translators live in developed countries, yes, and they should be paid adequately. So should all translators anywhere.
It's low-ball offers that hurt translators and the industry everywhere.
I'm not trying to rob translators in India or anywhere who translate from German to English of their livelihood.
On the contrary.
[Edited at 2015-04-18 18:05 GMT]
| | | | | Regarding competition | Apr 18, 2015 |
dianaft wrote: Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
Preventing clients from posting any budget information in the job postings was evaluated and discussed back in 2010, but many translators were against this restriction, arguing that they preferred to be able to filter or ignore low budget jobs, thus avoiding the effort of sending a proposal that had little hope of being accepted. I think that's a very fair point and would agree with this stance. There are different translation markets and they attract different service providers. Live and let live. I'd rather see budget information that prevents me from wasting my time. If someone else is happy to work at that price, so be it. We operate in different markets. We are not in direct competition with each other.
I don't know where you live Diana, but to me, this is not a matter of live and let live. Would you be okay with getting ripped off were you to provide other professional services? With having your client determine that you can provide the service (the "job") as long as you accept a price that's 75% lower than the standard rate.
You say live and let live.
I say the market is global. Many clients will seek the cheapest solution on the global market. Jobs often travel "down" from client to agency to another agency and then to a translator. These cases are not happening in a vacuum, they affect us all. You might not directly competing with these low-ballers. Not yet. Just my thoughts.
[Edited at 2015-04-18 18:03 GMT]
| | | | Sandesh Ghimire
Nepal
Local time: 20:45
Nepali to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | That is what I mean! | Apr 19, 2015 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
I say the market is global. Many clients will seek the cheapest solution on the global market. Jobs often travel "down" from client to agency to another agency and then to a translator. These cases are not happening in a vacuum, they affect us all. You might not directly competing with these low-ballers.
[Edited at 2015-04-18 18:03 GMT]
It is not happening in a vacuum. Even if it is, the vacuum is going to blast to inundate everyone in the industry. I suppose Proz should do something to stop it. If not, it is no use acting more exploitatively (by conning us into buying a membership and not giving us any benefits)
| | | | Diana Obermeyer
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:00
Member (2013)
German to English
+ ...
| segmentation and stuff | Apr 19, 2015 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote: dianaft wrote: Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
Preventing clients from posting any budget information in the job postings was evaluated and discussed back in 2010, but many translators were against this restriction, arguing that they preferred to be able to filter or ignore low budget jobs, thus avoiding the effort of sending a proposal that had little hope of being accepted. I think that's a very fair point and would agree with this stance. There are different translation markets and they attract different service providers. Live and let live. I'd rather see budget information that prevents me from wasting my time. If someone else is happy to work at that price, so be it. We operate in different markets. We are not in direct competition with each other. I don't know where you live Diana, but to me, this is not a matter of live and let live. Would you be okay with getting ripped off were you to provide other professional services? With having your client determine that you can provide the service (the "job") as long as you accept a price that's 75% lower than the standard rate. You say live and let live. I say the market is global. Many clients will seek the cheapest solution on the global market. Jobs often travel "down" from client to agency to another agency and then to a translator. These cases are not happening in a vacuum, they affect us all. You might not directly competing with these low-ballers. Not yet. Just my thoughts. [Edited at 2015-04-18 18:03 GMT]
I live in Shetland, a British offshore island. Housing is cheap and everything else costs on average 40% more than on the UK mainland. I don't think it matters.
There are different markets.
There are clients who seek a premium service and will pay premium rates. Certain translators have positioned themselves in this market. Other translators very seldom have access to this market, as these clients will insist on service providers established at this level. I don't know many people in this market segment, but from the ones I have spoken to, I have learned that rates are in the region of EUR 0.40 to 0.60/word. Translators tend to be highly specialised. Even though I have enjoyed the odd collaboration with these colleagues, I doubt very much that they would consider me competition - their clients are inaccessible to me.
Then, there is the mainstream market. Clients have certain quality expectations and demand certain criteria - experience, qualifications, recommendations, QA procedures, background knowledge, etc. Translators charge rates in the region of the average rates published on this site, maybe a slightly wider range - somewhere between EUR 0.08 and EUR 0.15. There may be a little extra for rush jobs or certification. Translators tend to be somewhat specialised. This is my market segment. I'm fairly happy here, but after the discussions I had with colleagues in the upper segment, I have been asking myself if average is something to be proud of and if there is any logical route to that other segment. As it stands, that progression is somewhat beyond me and I determined to focus on strengthening my position within this segment instead.
Finally, there is the cheap and cheerful market. The expectation is that translations should be OK and not contain major errors. Since many experienced/qualified/established translators are out of reach for this market, the selection procedure is typically based on free test translations offered to a large amount of translators. The main objective is to reduce errors to a percentage that still allows payment. There is no or little room for specialisation. Clients include third-tier or subsequent outsourcers and direct clients in areas such as gambling, magical treatment solutions, weight-loss pills, or high-volume/low-content blog production and eBay product listings. Translators tend to serve this segment if they lack experience and/or knowledge of the market, have been dropped by higher paying clients due to a failure to achieve quality standards, are only able to handle bog-standard repetitive texts, students and hobbyists - those who don't know better and those who aren't good enough to compete in the segment above. Standard rates are between EUR 0.03 and 0.05.
I do not think that there is a lot of cross-over between these market segments. There is competition within the individual segments which will affect the rate range of that segment. To someone who charges EUR 0.60, a colleague who charges EUR 0.40 is a bigger threat than someone who charges EUR 0.10. For someone who charges EUR 0.15, a colleague who charges 0.08 is a bigger threat than someone who charges EUR 0.05. Only translators who charge EUR 0.05 or less are threatened by someone who charges EUR 0.01. It has little effect on the mainstream segment.
I wholeheartedly agree on a different point you made about continuing to educate about rates. This will help one specific group "translators who lack experience and/or knowledge of the market". IMO that is the only group which is often being taken advantage of.
Would you be okay with getting ripped off were you to provide other professional services?
That statement implies that I am being ripped off at the moment. I don't think I am. I walked out of a GBP 40k job to become a translator. I know what the world outside of this industry looks like. My statement would apply to other professions to the same extent.
There are different market segments. There is competition within each segment. There is little mobility between segments. Each segment serves a different target group. It is up to each individual service provider, where he positions himself.
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One might ask why this site allows jobs to be posted at all. Why can't people just use the directory? OK, I can think of a reason: it would make it all but impossible for new members to get jobs. Perhaps the IT staff could develop an algorithm to work around this, or would that be too complicated? Or perhaps there could be a system whereby before posting a job for anyone to bid on (as long as they meet the requirements), clients would have to contact a certain number of translators personally. W... See more One might ask why this site allows jobs to be posted at all. Why can't people just use the directory? OK, I can think of a reason: it would make it all but impossible for new members to get jobs. Perhaps the IT staff could develop an algorithm to work around this, or would that be too complicated? Or perhaps there could be a system whereby before posting a job for anyone to bid on (as long as they meet the requirements), clients would have to contact a certain number of translators personally. When they post a job, they could get given a choice of, say, five translators (an algorithm could be used to determine how frequently translators appear in these lists, depending on their position in the Proz rankings), and if none has accepted after, say, a couple of hours, the job could be made available to any appropriately qualified bidder. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 11:00
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Make the posted jobs offering low rates more obvious | Apr 19, 2015 |
I agree with this site's policy to indicate rates on jobs offered. Not doing so would simply waste the time of freelancers who take the time to bid on jobs (and perhaps complete lengthy online applications and other paperwork) on the assumption that what is on offer is anything approaching an acceptable rate.
I also agree with Fiona that proz.com need not "pander" to this low end of the market. To this end, I'd like to again urge this site to consider a suggestion that I've offered ... See more I agree with this site's policy to indicate rates on jobs offered. Not doing so would simply waste the time of freelancers who take the time to bid on jobs (and perhaps complete lengthy online applications and other paperwork) on the assumption that what is on offer is anything approaching an acceptable rate.
I also agree with Fiona that proz.com need not "pander" to this low end of the market. To this end, I'd like to again urge this site to consider a suggestion that I've offered several times in the past: Make the jobs offering extremely low rates obvious on the home page (by highlighting them in pink, creating a separate section for them, etc.).
This site can think of it in terms of economics. The majority of its membership revenues (and, for that matter, fees for webinars, conferences, and other activities that this site sponsors) are attained from translators in developed countries who do indeed see rates of two to four cents per word as outrageous. So by all means let jobs with such rates be posted, but do something at the same time to make it obvious to everyone that these kinds of rates are unacceptable to the majority of those who pay for membership on this site.
This would seem a Solomonic solution that would enable the web's primary portal for translators do something of substance to bolster the profile of the profession it purports to serve, without abandoning its cherished free-market principles.
[Edited at 2015-04-19 14:48 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Reputation of the profession and Proz is at stake | Apr 19, 2015 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Every time a new translator reads a post like the one above and then jumps to the blueboard full of 5-star praises, what is she/he to think? Hmm, must be okay. Or: Well, I need to work, I'll just accept the terms. At least they seem to pay whatever it is they're paying, 45 days from the date of the invoice.
Yes, it must be what translation pays, then the new translator works at such a rate and finds he/she can't really pay their bills and questions whether translation is a profession at all, whether Proz is a site bother with and whether it wouldn't be better to do something else.
| | | | | Make it obvious you don't condone such unprofessioanl offers - Step 1: Don't let rates be posted | Apr 19, 2015 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
Make the posted jobs offering low rates more obvious
No, please don't. A weak warning about some of these jobs exists =
"The budget entered for this job is below the rates charged by at least 80% of ProZ.com members for this pair and currency."
Although one could (and hopefully many still do) interpret the above comment by Proz.com accompanying very low rate offers as a warning, it isn't really a statement discouraging newcomers or anyone from taking on such jobs. Plus, if a Certified Proz member can post those jobs, what does that say to the new translator who is eager to land a job?
Making these jobs even more obvious (color them pink) without condemning such practice could act almost like a guiding light/line for people who figure they haven't got a chance to get other jobs (and that increasingly means jobs NOT listed on the job board).
Robert Forstag wrote:
I agree with this site's policy to indicate rates on jobs offered. Not doing so would simply waste the time of freelancers who take the time to bid on jobs (and perhaps complete lengthy online applications and other paperwork) on the assumption that what is on offer is anything approaching an acceptable rate.
I disagree with it.
IMO, every translator needs to take the time and bid/provide quotes for projects after she/he has informed her/himself about what constitutes fair rates for translators in this business, the text to be translated, the work involved, and any other pertinent factors. If Proz.com is willing to develop a new job posting form (where posters are asked to adhere to professional posting language), translators will be able to decide what constitutes a professional posting.
No one should ever really provide a quote let alone accept an agency's proposal before they actually know everything there is to know about a project. That's why I support "project postings" without price proposals.
Will the bad apples go away? No, not right away. But it will make it much more difficult for them to play their schemes and it will prevent this almost automatic interplay between them and translators who will accept anything because it "looks" professional.
\Why bother with all that if you're working for great rates and clients yourself? Well, I ask everyone to think about it a little. I already talked about it earlier.
Robert Forstag wrote:
I also agree with Fiona that proz.com need not "pander" to this low end of the market. To this end, I'd like to again urge this site to consider a suggestion that I've offered several times in the past: Make the jobs offering extremely low rates obvious on the home page (by highlighting them in pink, creating a separate section for them, etc.).
No, please don't! See my comments above.
Robert Forstag wrote:
This site can think of it in terms of economics. The majority of its membership revenues (and, for that matter, fees for webinars, conferences, and other activities that this site sponsors) are attained from translators in developed countries who do indeed see rates of two to four cents per word as outrageous. So by all means let jobs with such rates be posted, but do something at the same time to make it obvious to everyone that these kinds of rates are unacceptable to the majority of those who pay for membership on this site.
Get rid of such jobs or don't allow rates to be proposed by unprofessional job posters. As I said before, USD 0.04/word for German>English is a travesty of a fair market and letting this be done by a Certified Proz.com member is quite outrageous - IMO.
Robert Forstag wrote:
This would seem a Solomonic solution that would enable the web's primary portal for translators do something of substance to bolster the profile of the profession it purports to serve, without abandoning its cherished free-market principles.
If it leads to Free and fair, yes, but to free and unfair and misleading - no.
[Edited at 2015-04-19 21:01 GMT]
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Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 08:00
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
dianaft wrote:
There are different markets.
There are clients who seek a premium service and will pay premium rates. Certain translators have positioned themselves in this market. Other translators very seldom have access to this market, as these clients will insist on service providers established at this level. I don't know many people in this market segment, but from the ones I have spoken to, I have learned that rates are in the region of EUR 0.40 to 0.60/word. Translators tend to be highly specialised. Even though I have enjoyed the odd collaboration with these colleagues, I doubt very much that they would consider me competition - their clients are inaccessible to me.
Then, there is the mainstream market. Clients have certain quality expectations and demand certain criteria - experience, qualifications, recommendations, QA procedures, background knowledge, etc. Translators charge rates in the region of the average rates published on this site, maybe a slightly wider range - somewhere between EUR 0.08 and EUR 0.15. There may be a little extra for rush jobs or certification. Translators tend to be somewhat specialised. This is my market segment. I'm fairly happy here, but after the discussions I had with colleagues in the upper segment, I have been asking myself if average is something to be proud of and if there is any logical route to that other segment. As it stands, that progression is somewhat beyond me and I determined to focus on strengthening my position within this segment instead.
Finally, there is the cheap and cheerful market. The expectation is that translations should be OK and not contain major errors. Since many experienced/qualified/established translators are out of reach for this market, the selection procedure is typically based on free test translations offered to a large amount of translators. The main objective is to reduce errors to a percentage that still allows payment. There is no or little room for specialisation. Clients include third-tier or subsequent outsourcers and direct clients in areas such as gambling, magical treatment solutions, weight-loss pills, or high-volume/low-content blog production and eBay product listings. Translators tend to serve this segment if they lack experience and/or knowledge of the market, have been dropped by higher paying clients due to a failure to achieve quality standards, are only able to handle bog-standard repetitive texts, students and hobbyists - those who don't know better and those who aren't good enough to compete in the segment above. Standard rates are between EUR 0.03 and 0.05.
I do not think that there is a lot of cross-over between these market segments. There is competition within the individual segments which will affect the rate range of that segment. To someone who charges EUR 0.60, a colleague who charges EUR 0.40 is a bigger threat than someone who charges EUR 0.10. For someone who charges EUR 0.15, a colleague who charges 0.08 is a bigger threat than someone who charges EUR 0.05. Only translators who charge EUR 0.05 or less are threatened by someone who charges EUR 0.01. It has little effect on the mainstream segment.
| | | | | Difference between opinion and fact | Apr 19, 2015 |
Michele Fauble wrote: Spot on dianaft wrote:
There are different markets.
There are clients who seek a premium service and will pay premium rates. Certain translators have positioned themselves in this market. Other translators very seldom have access to this market, as these clients will insist on service providers established at this level. I don't know many people in this market segment, but from the ones I have spoken to, I have learned that rates are in the region of EUR 0.40 to 0.60/word. Translators tend to be highly specialised. Even though I have enjoyed the odd collaboration with these colleagues, I doubt very much that they would consider me competition - their clients are inaccessible to me.
Then, there is the mainstream market. Clients have certain quality expectations and demand certain criteria - experience, qualifications, recommendations, QA procedures, background knowledge, etc. Translators charge rates in the region of the average rates published on this site, maybe a slightly wider range - somewhere between EUR 0.08 and EUR 0.15. There may be a little extra for rush jobs or certification. Translators tend to be somewhat specialised. This is my market segment. I'm fairly happy here, but after the discussions I had with colleagues in the upper segment, I have been asking myself if average is something to be proud of and if there is any logical route to that other segment. As it stands, that progression is somewhat beyond me and I determined to focus on strengthening my position within this segment instead.
Finally, there is the cheap and cheerful market. The expectation is that translations should be OK and not contain major errors. Since many experienced/qualified/established translators are out of reach for this market, the selection procedure is typically based on free test translations offered to a large amount of translators. The main objective is to reduce errors to a percentage that still allows payment. There is no or little room for specialisation. Clients include third-tier or subsequent outsourcers and direct clients in areas such as gambling, magical treatment solutions, weight-loss pills, or high-volume/low-content blog production and eBay product listings. Translators tend to serve this segment if they lack experience and/or knowledge of the market, have been dropped by higher paying clients due to a failure to achieve quality standards, are only able to handle bog-standard repetitive texts, students and hobbyists - those who don't know better and those who aren't good enough to compete in the segment above. Standard rates are between EUR 0.03 and 0.05.
I do not think that there is a lot of cross-over between these market segments. There is competition within the individual segments which will affect the rate range of that segment. To someone who charges EUR 0.60, a colleague who charges EUR 0.40 is a bigger threat than someone who charges EUR 0.10. For someone who charges EUR 0.15, a colleague who charges 0.08 is a bigger threat than someone who charges EUR 0.05. Only translators who charge EUR 0.05 or less are threatened by someone who charges EUR 0.01. It has little effect on the mainstream segment.
Spot on?
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I for my part have a different opinion on market segments as well as their interdependencies. Let me just say that, based on my experience, there is pressure in and between every "segment," whatever you define it to be, to either not raise your rates or lower them.
To say that low rate offers or the low end of the market have no influence on certain other segments is an opinion, but I know many colleagues share a different experience. I for one will not just stick my head in the sand and pretend that all is fine and I can't be bothered by what's going on around me - especially when agencies proudly display the Certified P badge and post such insulting offers which are continuously accepted.
When you are stating -
dianaft wrote:
"I do not think that there is a lot of cross-over between these market segments. There is competition within the individual segments which will affect the rate range of that segment. To someone who charges EUR 0.60, a colleague who charges EUR 0.40 is a bigger threat than someone who charges EUR 0.10. For someone who charges EUR 0.15, a colleague who charges 0.08 is a bigger threat than someone who charges EUR 0.05. Only translators who charge EUR 0.05 or less are threatened by someone who charges EUR 0.01. It has little effect on the mainstream segment.
...I am taking it as your opinion, but I disagree with it. Just my input.
[Edited at 2015-04-19 23:28 GMT]
| | | | | Different opinions exist on the matter | Apr 19, 2015 |
dianaft wrote: Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
I don't know where you live Diana, but to me, this is not a matter of live and let live. Would you be okay with getting ripped off were you to provide other professional services? With having your client determine that you can provide the service (the "job") as long as you accept a price that's 75% lower than the standard rate.
You say live and let live.
I say the market is global. Many clients will seek the cheapest solution on the global market. Jobs often travel "down" from client to agency to another agency and then to a translator. These cases are not happening in a vacuum, they affect us all. You might not directly competing with these low-ballers. Not yet. Just my thoughts.
I live in Shetland, a British offshore island. Housing is cheap and everything else costs on average 40% more than on the UK mainland. I don't think it matters.
It matters if one gets paid USD .04/word for German to English translations.
You might think it has no consequences for yourself if someone somewhere in some corner of the world gets paid that. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't share that opinion.
dianaft wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree on a different point you made about continuing to educate about rates. This will help one specific group "translators who lack experience and/or knowledge of the market". IMO that is the only group which is often being taken advantage of.
Thanks for supporting continued education of new translators. But I don't believe it's the only group of translators that is taken advantage of. I hold that every job that is provided for a pittance by a new translator is a job taken away from another translator, new or experienced, who would do the same job, do it accurately, but for acceptable rates.
And I for one don't subscribe to the idea that these low-ball offers are simply geared towards inexperienced translators who provide rubbish or are translations that are supposed to be less then accurate. If you look through these abominable offers, you will see that most often they call for experts/specialists in the field, many years of experience, accuracy, quick turn-around, commitment to quality, CAT tools, long wait for payment, .... all for peanuts, and then you look up the blueboard and see that hundreds of people have worked for these "Proz." I at least challenge your opinion that these practices have no effect on our industry and your own or my own future.
I believe we should be very cautious when we talk about these practices and their consequences.
dianaft wrote:
There are different market segments. There is competition within each segment. There is little mobility between segments. Each segment serves a different target group. It is up to each individual service provider, where he positions himself.
You are entitled to your opinion. But I disagree with this: "There is little mobility between segments. Each segment serves a different target group."
I think we need to take a closer look at the interactions in the industry. The more jobs move to the lower end, the fewer jobs might be available for professionals. It certainly seems to me that the offers posted here target various fields and translators who are expected to provide high-quality output. And these offers are being accepted.This is going on every day and there's no end in sight. I for one will always speak out against such practices because they are unprofessional, unfair, ludicrous, exploitative, and take jobs/projects away from those who know what to charge. Of course, that's my opinion. But I do hope many others share it.
bernhard sulzer wrote:
Would you be okay with getting ripped off were you to provide other professional services?
dianaft wrote:
That statement implies that I am being ripped off at the moment. I don't think I am. I walked out of a GBP 40k job to become a translator. I know what the world outside of this industry looks like. My statement would apply to other professions to the same extent.
It was meant as a question, and as a general question. And as a rhetorical question. Of course you don't want to get ripped off, and I don't want to imply that you or I currently are.
But many people are being ripped off, especially in this industry where it is obviously okay to offer peanuts and call yourself a professional. What bothers me very much is that such practice is not only allowed but encouraged, since the poster can easily acquire a Certified pro badge, and the translator can do the same. And based on the guidelines here, they are all just being professionals. Hmm. No! They are not. In most other industries, such low-balling rubbish wouldn't get you anywhere. But here it seems thousands flock to it every year. And you are telling me that you don't see any possible negative consequences for all of us down the road? Well, that's fine. You are always entitled to your opinion and I am to mine. At least that's still possible.
[Edited at 2015-04-20 03:02 GMT]
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The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
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