| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | Dwindling rates Thread poster: Ayano Murofushi-Arno
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Gudrun Wolfrath wrote:
heating and electricity? They increase every year.
Oil prices have actually fallen. That has meant lower petrol and diesel prices and lower heating costs for those using gas or oil.
My night storage electricity tariffs have remained unchanged, but I have noticed a tiny increase for new customers.
My other electricity tariffs are also unchanged, but in Germany, that means taking the trouble to change supplier once a year when their new customer bonuses expire. As electricity is such a rip-off in Germany thanks to Merkel's insane Energiewende (renewables nightmare), it is well worth the trouble to keep switching suppliers. Even when taking into account how this can manage electricity costs, German electricity is still nearly twice as expensive as French nuclear electricity. That, however, is not a question of inflation but of an energy policy that is hostile to modest families.
But it is quite possible that you can find some prices that have gone up. It's just not a general tendency.
| | | | | In terms of food prices | Mar 5, 2015 |
Here all the major supermarkets are in a price war with chains like Lidl, but although I don't have a spreadsheet analysis my weekly food bill has not decreased, neither have my monthly outgoings. True, petrol prices have fallen (but that doesn't really affect me much any more since I work from home). Gas and electricity have risen steadily over the last 4 years. All in all live has become quite a bit more expensive in the UK.
However, I suppose it also depends on where the OPs clie... See more Here all the major supermarkets are in a price war with chains like Lidl, but although I don't have a spreadsheet analysis my weekly food bill has not decreased, neither have my monthly outgoings. True, petrol prices have fallen (but that doesn't really affect me much any more since I work from home). Gas and electricity have risen steadily over the last 4 years. All in all live has become quite a bit more expensive in the UK.
However, I suppose it also depends on where the OPs clients are. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | UK not the same as Germany | Mar 5, 2015 |
Gabriele Demuth wrote:
Here all the major supermarkets are in a price war with chains like Lidl, but although I don't have a spreadsheet analysis my weekly food bill has not decreased, neither have my monthly outgoings. True, petrol prices have fallen (but that doesn't really affect me much any more since I work from home). Gas and electricity have risen steadily over the last 4 years. All in all live has become quite a bit more expensive in the UK.
As I said, the UK does not follow the same cycle as the euro zone. My impression is also that the UK is an expensive place to live today, not least in terms of property prices which, when compared to salary levels, are overvalued in the UK and undervalued in Germany (Google it if you're sceptical). But of course, Germany also has regional variations, to state the obvious.
Using your total food bill as basis for conclusions about price levels is not a reliable way of concluding where prices go, as small variations of your shopping habits can corrupt the conclusion.
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Instead of looking for reasons not to increase rates, we'd be better inspired to seek justifications to just do the opposite.
I don't think that a significant part of translators have been "overpricing" their services, though I've heard all sorts of excuses from agencies to make them think so: CAT productivity gains, 9/11, credit crunch, exchange rate fluctuations...
And now deflation?
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| Deflation is not an excuse | Mar 5, 2015 |
Philippe Etienne wrote:
Instead of looking for reasons not to increase rates, we'd be better inspired to seek justifications to just do the opposite.
I don't think that a significant part of translators have been "overpricing" their services, though I've heard all sorts of excuses from agencies to make them think so: CAT productivity gains, 9/11, credit crunch, exchange rate fluctuations...
And now deflation?
Just read the news if you don't believe that parts (not all) of Europe are in deflation or stagnation. It's not a question of excuses, just of getting facts right. What's the idea using inflation as reason for increasing rates if there is no inflation? That would in fact just be looking for excuses for increasing the rates, and it would be an argument easily dismantled by any agency that is aware of where there is no inflation. Once they've dismantled one argument as not credible, then all the rest of your arguments become weaker, and you've ended up shooting yourself in the foot. If you want to use inflation as reason, then it would be wise to check if there really is any inflation worth mentioning.
In no way did I intend to say that translators have been overpricing their services. Rates have generally been eroded, but that's not a reason to deny the existence of deflation or stagnation if that's what reality is where a translator is.
| | | | | No an excuse for the OP | Mar 5, 2015 |
The OP lives in the UK and in real terms her living costs would have gone up in many little ways over the past four years, so really, her earnings decreased year by year, wouldn't it be justified to increase her rates after four years - it wouldn't be an excuse!
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Gabriele Demuth wrote:
The OP lives in the UK and in real terms her living costs would have gone up in many little ways over the past four years, so really, her earnings decreased year by year, wouldn't it be justified to increase her rates after four years - it wouldn't be an excuse!
If there is inflation where you live, it is obviously a justification for a rate increase, and if there is no inflation, it isn't. Simple. I presumed we were allowed to mention other countries than the original poster's country.
Someone pointed out that there is still such a thing as inflation, so I pointed out that in today's Europe, that is not necessarily the case everywhere. That's a question of hard, economic facts that can be verified. If I ran an agency and a translator wanted more because of inflation even if he or she lived in a country with no inflation worth mentioning, then I would consider him or her dishonest or ignorant, as you don't have to be a financial specialist to look up an inflation rate. That's not the impression you want to give an agency, I suppose. Hence my suggestion not to use inflation as argument if there isn't any.
| | | | Richard Foulkes (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:18
German to English
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| Thomas - totally agree | Mar 5, 2015 |
It's great to club together and agree that we all deserve constant / higher rates but it's also useful to look at what's happening in the economy to consider how things actually are and how they may be going forward. I've already mentioned currencies.
Here is UK food price inflation (cf... See more It's great to club together and agree that we all deserve constant / higher rates but it's also useful to look at what's happening in the economy to consider how things actually are and how they may be going forward. I've already mentioned currencies.
Here is UK food price inflation (cf. supermarket wars):
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/food-inflation
-2.5% annualised and trending downwards. So if you specialise in food or food retail or moving up the value chain to associated sectors like logistics, this means your end clients are under increasing pressure to lower their prices.
Here is UK CPI:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/inflation-cpi
0.3% annualised and trending downwards. The lowest level for 14 years and nowhere near the 2% target considered to reflect healthy economic growth. Deflation here we come! Across a wide cross-section of the economy.
NB: CPI is a lagging indicator because consumer prices are the end of the line in the value chain. The leading indicator to CPI is PPI - the producer price index, or prices charged at wholesale / producer level.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/producer-prices-change
-0.8% and trending downwards. Deflation city. If you don't know how serious deflation is, Google it and have a read. Essentially, many of our end clients in the UK are entering a downward spiral of falling prices.
So, if our agency and/or end clients are being slammed by exchange rates and/or deflation (to name but one economic indicator), exactly why are we entitled to constant / higher rates? ▲ Collapse
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| Where do we want to be? | Mar 5, 2015 |
Thomas Frost wrote:
Just read the news if you don't believe ...
Following your sound advice, I just did: profits of CAC40 companies have increased by 34% in 2014. Mine haven't, although I did translations for them through agencies. Is that relevant too? Is it driven by inflation? Deflation? Translators' rates?
But I admit your point: refrain from giving inflation as a reason for increasing your rates when papers say there's none at the macroeconomic level.
Even if nobody in the real world feels that life is becoming cheaper.
I wrote (quoting oneself is so self-gratifying):
Instead of looking for reasons not to increase rates, we'd be better inspired to seek justifications to just do the opposite.
What I pointed at is that whatever the economic trend, the location of warzones or route plans to attack Mars, we should continuously aim at improving our revenue, if only because we're better, more experienced and/or more knowledgeable. Just as I am not now where I was 10 years ago, I don't want to be where I am now in 10 years' time.
So that I no longer have to buy in supermarkets, but in local shops, owned by real people.
Philippe
| | | | | Corporate profits | Mar 5, 2015 |
Philippe Etienne wrote: Thomas Frost wrote:
Just read the news if you don't believe ... Following your sound advice, I just did: profits of CAC40 companies have increased by 34% in 2014. Mine haven't, although I did translations for them through agencies. Is that relevant too? Is it driven by inflation? Deflation? Translators' rates?
Philippe, I detect a certain bitterness between the lines. You are probably not the only one to feel caught up in the recession. I do too. You are not the only one to have noticed that the rich are getting richer and the not-so-rich are getting even less rich.
However, none of this is the fault of translation agencies or their clients in general. The agencies are caught in the same trap between translators who need to earn a decent living and clients who are forced to cut costs in the economy as it is.
Making political points to the agencies about increase of corporate profits may give you a certain frustration relief, but it is unlikely to get you more money.
About inflation rates, Richard has provided some excellent links.
Philippe Etienne wrote: But I admit your point: refrain from giving inflation as a reason for increasing your rates when papers say there's none at the macroeconomic level. Even if nobody in the real world feels that life is becoming cheaper. I wrote (quoting oneself is so self-gratifying):
Instead of looking for reasons not to increase rates, we'd be better inspired to seek justifications to just do the opposite. What I pointed at is that whatever the economic trend, the location of warzones or route plans to attack Mars, we should continuously aim at improving our revenue, if only because we're better, more experienced and/or more knowledgeable. Just as I am not now where I was 10 years ago, I don't want to be where I am now in 10 years' time. So that I no longer have to buy in supermarkets, but in local shops, owned by real people. Philippe
"nobody in the real world feels that life is becoming cheaper"?
As I have pointed out, some parts of living costs in the real world have actually fallen in the real world. Others have not, and a few may have gone up. It obviously depends on your country and region of residence and your personal profile, but some of us can actually feel that the cost of living is not going up in general. There can also be elements of increasing living costs that cannot be seen in inflation index figures, such as increasing taxes, and I can imagine that living in one of the countries hardest hit by the crisis doesn't help. The French, for example, are caught up in a massive depression, and not just of the economic kind.
We all want to increase our revenue, but in aiming to do so, we need to use methods likely to help us achieve that goal, and using inflation as a reason while articles about deflation, low or no inflation keep flashing up in newspapers everywhere is unlikely to get us anywhere.
| | | | | Know your own worth! | Mar 6, 2015 |
I was just looking for some ideas on how to respond to a client asking you to lower your rates, and I came across this interesting discussion. There was one comment in particular that struck me:
[quote]Thomas Frost wrote:
"However, none of this is the fault of translation agencies or their clients in general. The agencies are caught in the same trap between translators who need to earn a decent living and clients who are forced to cut costs in the economy as it is."
So, I decided to add my two cents, by providing you with a link to an interesting article on exactly what trap managers of translation agencies, or one agency in particular, are caught in...
https://nopeanuts.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/not-paying-you/
Happy reading!
Don't let yourselves be fooled: Translation agencies are businesses just like any other business, and are looking at how to increase their profit margin.
I am slowly learning - after 25 years in this business - that being a good translator simply isn't enough. It also takes a fair amount of business skills - something they sadly do not teach in translation schools.
| | | | Frank Wong
Local time: 07:18
Chinese to English
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| No comply on this one | Mar 6, 2015 |
If they can accept your rate before, they still can now.
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| An argument in support of not accepting a lower rate | Mar 6, 2015 |
If an agency asks me to reduce the rate I've quoted, my reply is usually along these lines:
"If I agreed to take the job you are offering at a lower rate I might well find myself having to turn down job offers at my normal rate. I'm sure you'll agree that that would not make good business sense".
As a rule, the agency understands that point.
| | | | | Thanks for all the comments! | Mar 6, 2015 |
Very interesting to hear everyone's arguments from different points of view. For now, I am waiting to see how my clients will react (I emailed them yesterday to say I would like to keep my rates) but I also sent my CV to several new agencies yesterday and I am already starting to get good responses from them. so, in the end, if I lose some of my clients, it probably won't matter so much. It is true life here in the UK isn't getting any cheaper (except for petrol perhaps) so I should do my best t... See more Very interesting to hear everyone's arguments from different points of view. For now, I am waiting to see how my clients will react (I emailed them yesterday to say I would like to keep my rates) but I also sent my CV to several new agencies yesterday and I am already starting to get good responses from them. so, in the end, if I lose some of my clients, it probably won't matter so much. It is true life here in the UK isn't getting any cheaper (except for petrol perhaps) so I should do my best to keep my current rates even if that means losing some clients along the way.
Thanks again for all the interesting comments! ▲ Collapse
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Thanks for the statistics! True, maybe inflation is not be best argument at the moment, but not having raised rates in 4 years is one. I do remember wages not being in line with inflation over the last couple of years though and having not increased rates at all justifies a little increase I think. Also, our council tax keeps increasing, energy bills have taken a big hike before the oil price came down, but haven't been reduced yet...
In terms of rates I find it incredibly difficul... See more Thanks for the statistics! True, maybe inflation is not be best argument at the moment, but not having raised rates in 4 years is one. I do remember wages not being in line with inflation over the last couple of years though and having not increased rates at all justifies a little increase I think. Also, our council tax keeps increasing, energy bills have taken a big hike before the oil price came down, but haven't been reduced yet...
In terms of rates I find it incredibly difficult to price myself correctly as I have not been in the industry for too long and every time someone tells me I am asking too much I wonder, when someone is too keen accepting my prices I wonder ... what I am asking now is borderline for me at this point in time, however, I believe that I will get faster with time, will be able to use CAT more effectively and once I get my MA I plan to raise my prices a bit, so its work in progress, but I am still left to wonder... e.g. I just saw a job (agency from China) asking for $0.04 - I can't possibly do that, but will they find someone here?! ▲ Collapse
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