Is it so unusual to request a proper Purchase Order?
Thread poster: Jitka Komarkova (Mgr.)
Jitka Komarkova (Mgr.)
Jitka Komarkova (Mgr.)  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 00:29
English to Czech
+ ...
Nov 21, 2014

Dear colleagues,

I wonder whether you could help me discuss whether it is unusual to be provided with a proper purchase order in the translation business.

Recently, I was approached by a potential client (seems to be an end customer within the EU) through PROZ (you know the notoriously known "The author is not a registered ProZ.com user or was not logged in when sending this message...") who invited me to send my quote for a project.
Although their profile is ab
... See more
Dear colleagues,

I wonder whether you could help me discuss whether it is unusual to be provided with a proper purchase order in the translation business.

Recently, I was approached by a potential client (seems to be an end customer within the EU) through PROZ (you know the notoriously known "The author is not a registered ProZ.com user or was not logged in when sending this message...") who invited me to send my quote for a project.
Although their profile is absolutely vague and includes no important information whatsoever, no Blueboard records are available (so you actually have no idea who the client may be), the project seemed to be interesting so I sent my quote. A few days later, the client got back to me, accepted my rate and send a source sample. Upon replying that the topic matches my specialty, the client approached me with files to be translated.
I asked for being issued a proper purchase order and, in light of lacking any information about the client, I also asked for a partial pre-payment via Paypal (50% of the total, not a high amount at all). And this is what I received:

We have never issued a Purchase Order. No one ever asked for it.
About the pre-payment, we also don’t use to do this. We didn’t had problem with the payments. Please let me know if we can continue this project.

Am I really wrong being taken aback by such a reply...?
I respectfully replied (in brief) that although I am interested in our cooperation, I have no information about them and would appreciate a kind of "security". On the other hand, I believe that my LWA shows a rather reliable record so they could appreciate this. However, the client did not reply anymore...

What is your experience? Is it uncommon to receive a proper purchase order including all invoicing data? Or do you give up trying to get these and just take a chance?
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Andrea Halbritter
Andrea Halbritter  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 00:29
French to German
+ ...
No POs from direct clients Nov 21, 2014

Hello Jitka,

most of my customers are direct clients. None of them has ever sent me a PO nor have I asked for one.

It's only agencies that send me POs.

Other clients sign the offer I send them. On this offer I have fixed all details concerning the job (number of words, file, price, delay...). I often ask for 30 % in advance though if the customer is not in France or Germany or if it is a big project, sometimes even more.


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:29
English to German
+ ...
Security - yes! Nov 21, 2014

Andrea Halbritter wrote:

Hello Jitka,

most of my customers are direct clients. None of them has ever sent me a PO nor have I asked for one.

It's only agencies that send me POs.

Other clients sign the offer I send them. On this offer I have fixed all details concerning the job (number of words, file, price, delay...). I often ask for 30 % in advance though if the customer is not in France or Germany or if it is a big project, sometimes even more.



add-on: I like the 50% in cases where there is no information obtainable about the client.
Similar to you, I issue an order form detailing everything, sign it and have it co-signed by the client.
Serious clients will also be willing to pay up front, depending on the size of the project.
Don't take any chances.

[Edited at 2014-11-22 05:50 GMT]


 
Lincoln Hui
Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 07:29
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Contracts Nov 21, 2014

End clients may be unfamiliar with purchase orders, but they may have contracts for outside contractors that serve the same purpose.

If not, you can create your own "pre-invoice" and have them agree to the count and price in writing.


 
Jennifer Levey
Jennifer Levey  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 20:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
No. Nov 21, 2014

Jitka Komarkova (Mgr.) wrote:

... and just take a chance?


It's your business. You set the terms. And you define the risks; including the risk of letting a well-meaning (and possibly generous) client slip through your net...

Business management is about 'risk management'; 'chance' has no part to play in that.


 
Anton Konashenok
Anton Konashenok  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 00:29
French to English
+ ...
Get something in lieu of a PO Nov 21, 2014

In any business transactions other than trivial ones, you need to define clearly what you give and what you get to avoid potential misunderstandings, as well as for accounting and tax purposes. In fact, the other party needs it for exactly the same reason. It may be a purchase order, a contract, a proforma invoice, or just a plain e-mail message with a summary of all required information, but one of you should issue it and the other should confirm its acceptance. It should contain: identity/addr... See more
In any business transactions other than trivial ones, you need to define clearly what you give and what you get to avoid potential misunderstandings, as well as for accounting and tax purposes. In fact, the other party needs it for exactly the same reason. It may be a purchase order, a contract, a proforma invoice, or just a plain e-mail message with a summary of all required information, but one of you should issue it and the other should confirm its acceptance. It should contain: identity/address/telephone/e-mail/other data of you and your client, a description of the translation work to be done, delivery terms, your fee (whether a fixed amount or a rate per word/page/line/whatever) and payment terms. If you have all of this, you can just put it all in a single e-mail message and have the client respond with a confirmation. If any items are missing, have the client supply them. Starting without any of these is inviting problems.Collapse


 
Abdi Y Abdi
Abdi Y Abdi  Identity Verified
Kenya
Local time: 02:29
Member (2014)
English to Somali
+ ...
Always the same Nov 22, 2014

Even if you got the Purchase Order you still not sure the reliable of the client

I wouldn't ask 50% only if the task is more than 10000 words even if the client have no proz profile we still experience some clients with good number of blue board record but still money matter always, while those direct clients with no record still show more honest in payment some times

Some of my clients send POs in pdf format some just mentioned in emails and some don't even have NO de
... See more
Even if you got the Purchase Order you still not sure the reliable of the client

I wouldn't ask 50% only if the task is more than 10000 words even if the client have no proz profile we still experience some clients with good number of blue board record but still money matter always, while those direct clients with no record still show more honest in payment some times

Some of my clients send POs in pdf format some just mentioned in emails and some don't even have NO details of word count even only request for translation but they are still reliable but you can create your own POs to those with no POs I use invoice number in this situation but I do accept tasks from any level
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Thayenga
Thayenga  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:29
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
No reply Nov 22, 2014

Hello Jitka,

the fact that your client didn't reply to your last email says it all, doesn't it?

You need to have some form of written agreement, a PO, a contract, or a detailed email. Asking for partial upfront payment for jobs of larger volume is also quite common.

Any potential customer should have the required information included in her/his first email, e. g. company name and website, phone number, ProZ-profile (if existing), etc.

Keep in
... See more
Hello Jitka,

the fact that your client didn't reply to your last email says it all, doesn't it?

You need to have some form of written agreement, a PO, a contract, or a detailed email. Asking for partial upfront payment for jobs of larger volume is also quite common.

Any potential customer should have the required information included in her/his first email, e. g. company name and website, phone number, ProZ-profile (if existing), etc.

Keep in mind, you are the service provider. Therefore, you set the terms of your business. Either the client agrees or moves on. In business relationships "trust" must be earned, e. g. by making all relevant information regarding the job at hand. This is considered a good buiness practice. This is a safe and pleasant way to conduct buinesses.
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Balasubramaniam L.
Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 04:59
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
An email confirmation is good enough for me Nov 23, 2014

An email confirmation with details of rate, volume and deadline is good enough for me, but most clients do send me a PO.

 
Gabriele Demuth
Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:29
English to German
Do all clients know what a PO is? Nov 23, 2014

I had a client with whom I usually communicated via Skye and I asked repeatedly for a PO, but he just ignored my requests until I sent him a detailed e-mail explaining the job, rates, etc and asked him to agree to it, he did and that was good enough for me.

 
Ruta Peter
Ruta Peter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:29
Member (2004)
German to Lithuanian
+ ...
No identity - no credit Nov 29, 2014

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:



add-on: I like the 50% in cases where there is no information obtainable about the client.
...

[Edited at 2014-11-22 05:50 GMT]

i
We never do a job for persons without complete verifiable personal information , if this person (company) doesn´t pay 100% cash before.

Why?

- The contact /the delivery of the product commonly goes from/to E-mail address only. If this E-mail (especially gmail or other freemail addresses) is not verifiable (safely assignable!) to a ereal existent person, the person may be the King of China, a scammer, a whatelse. How can I give him a credit? Do you give 50 $ to someone unknwon you meet at the corner if he says: Hey, I don´t tell you who I am (or I tell you my nickname), be here tomorrow and you will get it back?

- One special reason for U.S.-citizens: It´s the law!
Yes, it´s the law in all EU countries to provide his complete true real name and address in every elctronically transferred business message. For all others: Yes, this law makes sense.

A special PO may be unnecessary, if this condition is met and the payment etc has been agreed.

Joachim Peter


 
Jennifer Levey
Jennifer Levey  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 20:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
Please clarify Nov 29, 2014

Ruta Peter wrote:
...
- One special reason for U.S.-citizens: It´s the law!
Yes, it´s the law in all EU countries to provide his complete true real name and address in every elctronically transferred business message...


That comment raises two doubts in my mind:
- Is that "US" law or "EU" law?
- Regardless of whether it refers to the US or the EU, can you provide a web reference where we can read the law you refer to?


 
564354352 (X)
564354352 (X)  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 00:29
Danish to English
+ ...
Not unusual, but not a must, either Nov 30, 2014

I never request a PO. If a client sends me one, it's just unnecessary paperwork, in my view. If they send me a PO no., I will add it to my invoice for their benefit, but I have no need for it.

Obviously, I need specific invoicing details, name, address and VAT no., but other than that, it's the client who has to agree to MY terms, not me having to agree with whatever they put into a wordy PO document.

I like to keep paperwork, even if it is virtual, to a minimum, so to
... See more
I never request a PO. If a client sends me one, it's just unnecessary paperwork, in my view. If they send me a PO no., I will add it to my invoice for their benefit, but I have no need for it.

Obviously, I need specific invoicing details, name, address and VAT no., but other than that, it's the client who has to agree to MY terms, not me having to agree with whatever they put into a wordy PO document.

I like to keep paperwork, even if it is virtual, to a minimum, so to me, an email saying: Can you translate the attached file, please? is sufficient.

Mind you, obviously, I vet new clients carefully, and I don't start a new working relationship with someone unless I feel relatively certain that they will honour their part of whatever agreement we come to through simple emails. I have never asked for pre-payment, and I would be quite unlikely to take on a huge job from a new client. That's my bit of 'risk management'.
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Is it so unusual to request a proper Purchase Order?







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