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How much can our rates be reduced?
Thread poster: sylvie29
LilianNekipelov
LilianNekipelov  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:26
Russian to English
+ ...
Oh, come on--of course I don't believe that--that an average company would realize it Aug 25, 2014

Andy Watkinson wrote:

LilianNekipelov wrote:

when most companies find out what nonsensical texts they get for the low price. Translation is a highly complex activity, and it cannot be cheap. Even Google uses well-paid, human transaltors to translate all the documents related to their Google Translate.


[Edited at 2014-08-24 15:49 GMT]



You seem to have this fixed idea that "companies" will eventually come to realize the poor quality of texts produced by incompetent translators - this is not the case in a vast majority of cases.

I don't know quite what timeframe you're thinking of, but poor translations are just as ubiquitous now as ever.
Nothing has changed.

Fortunately, most incompetent translators eliminate themselves from the market after a relatively short time, when they realize they're getting flack from the customer while at the same time their lack of knowledge/low rates/low speed combined means they barely break even.

Some, of course, muddle through with a little help from sites like this. But they're easy to spot.


It was just something Utopian --some people may realize that from time to time, especially when their helicopters crash (due to wrongly translated manuals) or books become non-readable. The majority of companies do not have the tools that would lead them to that realization--qualified multilingual personnel, and the right ideas about translation,--what it takes, how long it takes, and how much it should cost. That, unfortunately, reflects the reality. Most companies are too busy working on their budgets and cost optimization issues.

[Edited at 2014-08-25 08:23 GMT]


 
Rudolf Frans Maulany
Rudolf Frans Maulany  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 18:26
English to Indonesian
+ ...
Market will determine rate. Aug 25, 2014

In my 30 years experience as a translator/interpreter I observe a lot of changes and development happening in the translation market, previously our rates was determined directly by the user and we came in direct contact with the user(publisher, institution, etc.) where we can negotiate and got a full and good price.

Later we enter a second phase and came a system where publishers, institution hire their own in house translators and freelance translators and translator got approxi
... See more
In my 30 years experience as a translator/interpreter I observe a lot of changes and development happening in the translation market, previously our rates was determined directly by the user and we came in direct contact with the user(publisher, institution, etc.) where we can negotiate and got a full and good price.

Later we enter a second phase and came a system where publishers, institution hire their own in house translators and freelance translators and translator got approximately only 2/3 of their previous rate and later in the third phase most of companies are using an outsourcing system which is now popular everywhere and with the arrival of CAT tools, translation tools, etc. agencies have a more important role in determining the rate and now from my observation it is approximately about 1/3 of the normal rate.

My conclusion about how much can our rates be reduced according to my opinion will be determined by the market and this will change everyday like a stock market price fluctuation.

With the development of an advanced CAT tool I think the rate will have a tendency to become lower and lower and a proofreader rate will became more dominant instead a translator rate.

[Edited at 2014-08-25 08:42 GMT]
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DLyons
DLyons  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 17:26
Spanish to English
+ ...
The customer is always right Aug 25, 2014

Thayenga wrote:

The other day I received an offer to proofread a file for USD 100. Perhapos an acceptabvle rate, I thought, until I read the requirements. The file consisted of some 4.700 and the proofread, partially edited file had to be returned within 1 (one!) hour.



They've offered USD 100 for 1 hours work - they claim to be professionals, so they know what they are doing. You say you'll do your best, accept their offer, you then do your best and invoice them accordingly. Everyone has kept their side of the contract.

Mind you, I wouldn't bet on actually getting paid


 
sylvie29
sylvie29  Identity Verified
Morocco
Local time: 17:26
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Is there anything that we can to reverse this trend? Aug 25, 2014

And I thinking in particular about the "famous" post-editing paid at ridiculous rate when we know it will need a 90% rewrite.

Setup a union maybe to impose our own rates, a fair one obviously and one that goes up rather than down like the cost of everything else?


 
Michal Fabian
Michal Fabian  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 13:26
Dutch to Slovak
+ ...
Let's not use the passive voice here. Aug 25, 2014

Rates being reduced? Who reduces them? The agiencies/clients do not set them in the first place, surely they do not have the authority to reduce them.

Only you determine your rates. Well, do not reduce them But if you do, know that there is only one person to blame...

[Edited at 2014-08-25 11:05 GMT]


 
LilianNekipelov
LilianNekipelov  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:26
Russian to English
+ ...
This would be slave mentality to believe that the customer is always right Aug 25, 2014

DLyons wrote:

Thayenga wrote:

The other day I received an offer to proofread a file for USD 100. Perhapos an acceptabvle rate, I thought, until I read the requirements. The file consisted of some 4.700 and the proofread, partially edited file had to be returned within 1 (one!) hour.



They've offered USD 100 for 1 hours work - they claim to be professionals, so they know what they are doing. You say you'll do your best, accept their offer, you then do your best and invoice them accordingly. Everyone has kept their side of the contract.

Mind you, I wouldn't bet on actually getting paid


They are right when they are right, they are wrong when they are wrong. They have to always be treated with respect, however, which does not mean that anyone has to listen to all their whims, especially in the translation field. Translation is like dentistry in a way--not like interior design. You don't tell the dentist what to put in his compound.

[Edited at 2014-08-25 11:28 GMT]


 
José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 14:26
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
These guys said it all! Aug 25, 2014

While waiting at a traffic light, I had a chance to take a snapshot of this delivery truck in Sao Paulo, Brazil. According to their web site, it's an Italian food & drink distributor.



 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:26
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Some translation markets are commoditised - who knew? Aug 25, 2014

Giles Watson wrote:
In other words, if you want to earn a living from translation, identify the value that you are adding and pick customers who are going to appreciate it.


Which is really what one has to do in any market: differentiate one's product. Translation is no different. The only difference is that - going by numerous threads on ProZ about rates - this seems to come as a surprise to a fair proportion of translators. I'm not saying this is easy, mind, just that it is, or should be, obvious.

If you bake and sell white bread and the guy next door to you sells white bread and the guy five doors down on the other side of the street sells white bread then of course prices for white bread will plummet. So you offer rye, 50/50 mixes, spelt, quinoa, sell bread at a time or in a place that other people can't or won't, or start a patisserie, make pies, basically find something, some niche that is less commoditised.

During college I took a year out and did 12 months as an intern in Japan before coming back to university for my final year. My linguistic ability improved dramatically during my time in Japan and I suppose I got a little cocky.

My professor brought me down to earth with a bump when we were discussing how I could find a job after graduation in a weak economy. "However good you are" she said "remember that there are 120 million people who speak better Japanese than you do. The language alone is not enough."

She was right.


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 17:26
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Like!!! Aug 25, 2014

Michal Fabian wrote:

Rates being reduced? Who reduces them? The agiencies/clients do not set them in the first place, surely they do not have the authority to reduce them.

Only you determine your rates. Well, do not reduce them But if you do, know that there is only one person to blame...


 
564354352 (X)
564354352 (X)  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 18:26
Danish to English
+ ...
Like, too!! Aug 25, 2014

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Michal Fabian wrote:

Rates being reduced? Who reduces them? The agiencies/clients do not set them in the first place, surely they do not have the authority to reduce them.

Only you determine your rates. Well, do not reduce them But if you do, know that there is only one person to blame...


 
laure claesen
laure claesen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 18:26
Member (2005)
English to French
Agencies do try hard to lower the rates. So I try hard to keep mine up. Aug 25, 2014

This is a long, ongoing battles, folks. Isn't it (big sigh).
Today, I received the following reply by a prospective client who had contacted me via ProZ Job Connect for a European tender:
"Thank you for your mail. Your profile is very complete and we would really like to have you in the team. So I will count you as part of the translators for this project but I have to tell you that your rate is just a little too high compared to your colleagues' average rate (0.08).
Could yo
... See more
This is a long, ongoing battles, folks. Isn't it (big sigh).
Today, I received the following reply by a prospective client who had contacted me via ProZ Job Connect for a European tender:
"Thank you for your mail. Your profile is very complete and we would really like to have you in the team. So I will count you as part of the translators for this project but I have to tell you that your rate is just a little too high compared to your colleagues' average rate (0.08).
Could you please sign the NDA, etc. etc."

They only hint at the high rate without requesting that I lower it. So what would YOU guies do? Give them their 0.08 and close the matter or stick to my proud (and considered well-deserved, as the author of this thread and many of you feel) 0.10/word?

As I love taking risks, I think I would go for the 2nd option but I would be interested to hear what you think if you disagree.
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Philippe Etienne
Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 18:26
Member
English to French
Your profile perfectly matches our needs... Aug 25, 2014

laure claesen wrote:
...
"Thank you for your mail. Your profile is very complete and we would really like to have you in the team. So I will count you as part of the translators for this project but I have to tell you that your rate is just a little too high compared to your colleagues' average rate (0.08).
...

...but we can't afford your services.
I periodically get this "too expensive" claim, but funnily enough I sometimes also get the job at hand. I don't sell discontinued, outdated or stale words, and I can't "make an effort".
So what would YOU guies do?

Apologise for being more expensive than the "average" rates of their other EN>FR translators. And further explain why I don't deliver "average" translations.

Philippe


 
Ana Cuesta
Ana Cuesta  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 18:26
Member
English to Spanish
Be careful with european tenders Aug 25, 2014

laure claesen wrote:

This is a long, ongoing battles, folks. Isn't it (big sigh).
Today, I received the following reply by a prospective client who had contacted me via ProZ Job Connect for a European tender:
"Thank you for your mail. Your profile is very complete and we would really like to have you in the team. So I will count you as part of the translators for this project but I have to tell you that your rate is just a little too high compared to your colleagues' average rate (0.08).
Could you please sign the NDA, etc. etc."

They only hint at the high rate without requesting that I lower it. So what would YOU guies do? Give them their 0.08 and close the matter or stick to my proud (and considered well-deserved, as the author of this thread and many of you feel) 0.10/word?

As I love taking risks, I think I would go for the 2nd option but I would be interested to hear what you think if you disagree.



I wouldn't reduce my rate (mind you, mine is 0.09 €) but that kind of comment from the client would trigger all sort of alarms in my mind, since I've been burned before with a prospect client asking me to fill all that paperwork to later on win the tender (I know that for a fact, since that is public information) and still never send any work my way. They even had the cheek to ask me to fill the paperwork again for a second tender and when confronted about the fact that they hadn't sent me any work from the first one they said there is always a delay between tenders being awarded and real work starting but I was sure to receive some work... well, that was something like 5 years ago. I suspect they need specialized CVs and low prices to win the tender, and someone must have figured out they don't need to necessarily get them from the same freelancers


 
Audra deFalco (X)
Audra deFalco (X)
United States
Local time: 13:26
Italian to English
+ ...
Disgusting Aug 25, 2014

Orrin Cummins wrote:

I got an email offer yesterday for a J -> E translation job. It was a 56-page scanned PDF (horrible quality) of fairly technical civil engineering documents, so I didn't do a word count, but clicking through the document it didn't have a whole lot of pictures at all. So yeah, 56 pages...guess what the proposed price was?

$90.


That is absolutely disgusting. I would call it shocking but, unfortunately, it isn't.


 
Riccardo Schiaffino
Riccardo Schiaffino  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:26
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
Why should you care what others charge? Aug 26, 2014

laure claesen wrote:

"Thank you for your mail. Your profile is very complete and we would really like to have you in the team. So I will count you as part of the translators for this project but I have to tell you that your rate is just a little too high compared to your colleagues' average rate (0.08).
Could you please sign the NDA, etc. etc."



Answer 1 (neutral):

"Thank you for your message. I'm perfectly willing to sign a reasonable NDA. Before doing so, however, please confirm that you accept my base rate of X, which is not negotiable. I believe that my rate is very reasonable, and fully warranted by my experience and skill.

I understand that for certain projects you might not be able to afford my rate, In that case, please keep me in mind for other projects."

Answer 2 (snarky):

"Thank you for your message. By asking me to lower my rate from 0.10 to 0.08, you are asking me to give you a 20% discount. I'm perfectly happy to grant you such as discount if you convince my landlord, grocer, utilities company, etc. to grant me a similar 20% discount. As soon as I receive from you a signed commitment to obtain for me an across-the-board 20% discount from all my supplier of goods or services, I'll be happy to lower my rates for you."

[Edited at 2014-08-26 01:25 GMT]


 
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