| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Why do clients turn to big translation companies rather than individual translators? Thread poster: LilianNekipelov
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LilianNekipelov 
United States
Local time: 07:38
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | This is an excellent suggestion | Jul 23, 2014 |
Giles Watson wrote:
Some of the best gigs around are with top business execs who need a personal service from a reliably excellent translator. Even companies the bulk of whose translation needs are catered for by agencies may be willing to pay considerably more for certain kinds of work. The problem is how to get in touch with the person who can swing it for you (often a PA).
It's a bit like fishing. You can lob a stick of dynamite into the water by spamming every name in the phone book, which is not very satisfying and in any case tends to ruin the market, at least for the lobber. Or you can go rod fishing. Study your prey, prepare your lures and be patient. It might take time but there's nothing wrong with having a long-term objective. And before you land the big one, you'll probably catch some other interesting fish along the way.
Yes, I really think fishing (in any waters) might be a great sport. Sometimes, you don't even have to release the fish. It might be important to attract direct clients to such sites as Proz.
[Edited at 2014-07-23 20:39 GMT]
| | | | Neil Coffey
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:38
French to English
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| Various reasons, plus they may just not have thought about it... | Jul 24, 2014 |
LilianNekipelov wrote:
Translation is an expensive service to begin with, so I really cannot see the logic in using an agent. It is slightly different with interpreting. I just wonder why don't they outsource concert pianists, and violists as much/ Quite comparable skills--in terms of uniqueness.
I think this depends to some extent on what relationship is the most viable for the client. By working directly with the translator, a savvy client can, as you suggest, pick a translator whose specific qualities and expertise they appreciate and "cut out the middle man" both in terms of price and time delays.
But this can put the onus on the client to do a little bit of recruitment and project management that they may prefer to offload to a third party who is more specialised in that field.
It's a bit like asking: why do people use catering companies when they could themselves advertise for and interview chefs, order raw ingredients, hire and supervise kitchens, hire delivery companies, etc... Or why do companies use recruitment agencies when they could advertise the jobs and interview candidates themselves? Perhaps they could take on these tasks, but they prefer to offload them.
In other cases, I think people just haven't thought about it very much. An employee's boss asks them to get a document translated, so they Google "translation company". Just as if their boss had asked them to order some furniture, they would have Googled "furniture company" rather than "freelance joiner".
[Edited at 2014-07-24 02:18 GMT]
| | | | | Working with direct clients is not necessarily a good thing | Jul 24, 2014 |
I have worked in the past with a number of large/largish direct clients, but they had their own « agency » in house (with its pool of translators, DTP people, etc.), i.e. they knew the going rates (they are businesses and so are we after all) and whilst they paid better, it was not all that much better.
Then, you have to keep in mind we are in the 21rst century and that many companies are bought/sold/fail in the blink of an eye. So working direct with them can lead you to a brutal dead e... See more I have worked in the past with a number of large/largish direct clients, but they had their own « agency » in house (with its pool of translators, DTP people, etc.), i.e. they knew the going rates (they are businesses and so are we after all) and whilst they paid better, it was not all that much better.
Then, you have to keep in mind we are in the 21rst century and that many companies are bought/sold/fail in the blink of an eye. So working direct with them can lead you to a brutal dead end. Also, you will have to spend a fair amount of time doing market research, etc. Maybe it is only me, but until about 2005 it was relatively easy to find direct work, since then it is really hard/rare.
I prefer to work with agencies (and not tie myself to a single one), since you get a broader range of projects, and it protects me from abrupt shortfalls. As you all know, there are good and bad ones, but with a bit of judgment you will learn who is who. ▲ Collapse
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A number of factors contribute:
1. Corporations want to deal with corporations.
2. Passing blame on and around: When things go awry (liability etc.), you can claim a reputable professional service provider took over your responsibility for the entire process. Comes in package with deep pockets, no matter that many agencies limit liability to the price of the order.
3. One-stop shop mentality, scope and scale. Even translators themselves cave under the mental pressure of ... See more A number of factors contribute:
1. Corporations want to deal with corporations.
2. Passing blame on and around: When things go awry (liability etc.), you can claim a reputable professional service provider took over your responsibility for the entire process. Comes in package with deep pockets, no matter that many agencies limit liability to the price of the order.
3. One-stop shop mentality, scope and scale. Even translators themselves cave under the mental pressure of that, in a sort of Stockholm-Syndrome-like pattern. We can see examples even in this thread. We can also see, all the time even, how unprofessional translation agencies are with regard to translation itself. How much more so the clients must be then? These days businesses act like consumers and want someone to guide them by the hand, be the big daddy, preferably so they can sit down and click on things etc.
4. An intimidating lack of familiarity with how things work in translation and among translators, to go hand-in-hand with #3.
5. Distrust of freelancers and individual practitioners, be it because of fears concerning their competence, professionalism or business ethics or business potential and resources or just a knee jerk reaction. And we know that some translators aren't really that good, or at least they don't make a favourable impression. I don't wish to attack you personally, but what I can see of your own writing in this thread does not inspire confidence, and I'd sooner trust an agency myself.
Regarding lawyers, outsourcing happens a lot, except it isn't managed by non-lawyers other than paralegals and legal secretaries who are on a lawyer's payroll. Work goes from firm to firm, not always with the client's specific knowledge. Plus, a lot of lawyers are probably hired on the basis of referrals from other lawyers, not to mention where the client is a corporation represented by its own inhouse lawyers when hiring outside firms. Outside firms, in turn, do hire other firms or solo practitioners.
As for doctors, referrals are key, including from other doctors, such as when a GP selects the right specialist, or even the receptionist at an outpatient clinic makes some suggestions when a new patient has several doctors to pick from when setting up an appointment. There's obviously not the same kind of outsourcing as in our badly gimped translation 'industry', but patients themselves don't necessarily do much of the picking.
Right now, make no mistake, the 'industry' is simply dominated by agencies, which have the power to make sure things stay that way and make progress on the path. Clients, on the other hand, are not aware of what the selection and assigment of translators looks like, including even misleading advertising and lies and whatnot. Clients think they'll get the best translators, plus proofreading and revising by fully qualified experts with a lot of experience, reviewed further and assisted by subject-matter specialists. Except they won't get it, and the money will become the agency's profit margin or is peanuts already.
Translator associations should be communicating this fact to clients widely and loudly, except many are staffed or sponsored by translation agencies (including the ATA) ▲ Collapse
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Rob Prior
Germany
Local time: 13:38
German to English
| Companies are used to outsourcing to other companies | Jul 24, 2014 |
All the above answers (volume, multiple languages, convenience, etc.) are all valid. But I think the main reason is that companies (especially larger ones) are simply used to outsourcing their work to other companies.
For example:
Company X will outsource their accounting work to an accountancy firm, their advertising to an advertising agency, their canteen will be run by a catering company, etc. Why should they hire an individual? It's part of the corporate landscape.<... See more All the above answers (volume, multiple languages, convenience, etc.) are all valid. But I think the main reason is that companies (especially larger ones) are simply used to outsourcing their work to other companies.
For example:
Company X will outsource their accounting work to an accountancy firm, their advertising to an advertising agency, their canteen will be run by a catering company, etc. Why should they hire an individual? It's part of the corporate landscape.
Plus, agencies (particularly the large ones) sometimes have whole armies of sales staff with a PowerPoint presentation and a slick line of bullshit, who are trained to get clients.
Working on a direct client basis with large companies is unrealistic. My pieces of advice/observations are:
Specialise: A major manufacturer may hire an agency to handle their high-volume technical documentation going into 76 languages, but what about the glossy brochure to mark 25 years in business, or the CEO's speech at the next big conference?
Target individuals, not companies: Rather than having a client relationship with a company, look to have relationships with individuals and repsond to their needs. For example: target an individual marketing manager, lawyer or finance director. The higher up the ladder the better. Give these people top quality work, make them look good to their bosses and the people who depend on them, be their partner in crime. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Shai Navé
Israel
Local time: 14:38
English to Hebrew
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| Yet another proof... | Jul 24, 2014 |
of how translators are their own worst enemies.
To expand on my previous post in this discussion:
1. Stop calling yourselves Freelancers. The term freelancer has negative connotation in the business world (a para-professional, generalist, who didn't make it in the "real world" and now begs for any type of works they can get). You are providing a (valuable) commercial service, so act the part. Few of those who look for a trustworthy business partner will choose someone w... See more of how translators are their own worst enemies.
To expand on my previous post in this discussion:
1. Stop calling yourselves Freelancers. The term freelancer has negative connotation in the business world (a para-professional, generalist, who didn't make it in the "real world" and now begs for any type of works they can get). You are providing a (valuable) commercial service, so act the part. Few of those who look for a trustworthy business partner will choose someone who defines themselves as a "freelancer"; they will look for those who they assume they can trust. Most of the time, when a client who look for a quality service speaks with yet another "translator" whose perception of business is limited to being yet another cog in the language transformation mill, they get deterred from going forward. The passiveness, lack of ability to demonstrate professional authority, and usually the lack of ability to convey the benefits the client gets is not the attitude they are looking for.
2. Stop using a single term when referring to "agencies". There are generally two types of "agencies": Brokers/Resellers of Translation Services and Professional Practices. The former we can do without. Not all opportunities are born equal. Filter out the noise.
Learn about how the market and business work; stop being passive through participating in blind bidding platforms such as this one; there is nothing wrong with working with professional practices, and even brokers to some degree, but stop limiting yourself to think that what you see on ProZ or other "freelancers" websites represents the market. They represent just a sliver of it. Work to acquire knowledge, expertise, experience, and to graduate from the language transformation sector into the professional translation services sector - stop letting others write your professional narrative for you.
[Edited at 2014-07-24 10:50 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Some valuable ideas | Jul 24, 2014 |
Shai Navé wrote:
Yet another proof... of how translators are their own worst enemies.
To expand on my previous post in this discussion:
1. Stop calling yourselves Freelancers. The term freelancer has negative connotation in the business world (a para-professional, generalist, who didn't make it in the "real world" and now begs for any type of works they can get). You are providing a (valuable) commercial service, so act the part.
Definitely!
In Brazil we have a legal/tax class for that, which literally translated into EN would be "autonomous". This means that I am not connected in any way to any other legal entity, that I am the entire corporation, fully liable for whatever I do as long as I live.
Perhaps in English a better word would be "independent". "Self-employed" sounds a bit like an oxymoron, placing one as both employer and employee. Doing performance appraisal interviews in front of a mirror would be taken as a mild case of insanity.
Also in Brazil we have the expression "frila" or "freela" (short for "freelancing"), which often implies moonlighting, such as the building janitor doing some handyman work in my apartment during his day off, or a bilingual individual translating anything to earn some extra cash in their spare time.
Shai Navé wrote:
2. Stop using a single term when referring to "agencies". There are generally two types of "agencies": Brokers/Resellers of Translation Services and Professional Practices. The former we can do without. Not all opportunities are born equal. Filter out the noise.
That can't be helped. Both types call themselves "translation agencies".
The tourism industry has sorted it out. A travel agency will book you tickets, hotels, rental cars (which you could do yourself online too), as well as sell you complete and often complex travel packages, carefully organized by tour operators.
The translation industry has not. As it is a particularly ubiquitous occupation, i.e. I could continue doing my jobs at hand if I and my computer were abducted overnight to, say, Tashkent, most such agencies are seen as a web site. To illustrate, I think that my own web site has become larger than my entire office. I mean that if I printed out all of its contents, I'd need more wall area than I have to spread all those pages.
Therefore great translation agencies may have somewhat modest web sites. Some fly-by-nite translation brokers have giant portals on the web. Yet these are all one sees online.
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José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Doing performance appraisal interviews in front of a mirror would be taken as a mild case of insanity.
You mean no one else does this...? Hmm.
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Giles Watson
Italy
Local time: 13:38
Italian to English
In memoriam | Appraisal interview - Ms S White | Jul 24, 2014 |
Orrin Cummins wrote:
Doing performance appraisal interviews in front of a mirror would be taken as a mild case of insanity.
You mean no one else does this...? Hmm.
SW
Mirror, mirror on the wall, do I translate the best of all?
Mirror
Dear Ms White, you have not lied. You are now mirror-certified!
Evaluator: I.M. Dotty
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Shai Navé wrote:
of how translators are their own worst enemies.
To expand on my previous post in this discussion:
1. Stop calling yourselves Freelancers. The term freelancer has negative connotation in the business world (a para-professional, generalist, who didn't make it in the "real world" and now begs for any type of works they can get). You are providing a (valuable) commercial service, so act the part. Few of those who look for a trustworthy business partner will choose someone who defines themselves as a "freelancer"; they will look for those who they assume they can trust. Most of the time, when a client who look for a quality service speaks with yet another "translator" whose perception of business is limited to being yet another cog in the language transformation mill, they get deterred from going forward. The passiveness, lack of ability to demonstrate professional authority, and usually the lack of ability to convey the benefits the client gets is not the attitude they are looking for.
Freelance is a somewhat artsy term. It fits a writer or journalist, but it doesn't fit an accountant or plumber. If you see yourself as a sort of writer, the term is quite adequate, and your subjective aversion to it is perhaps a matter of unique personal experience or perception.
My own subjective feelings about this are that we shouldn't allow ourselves to become ruled by business. If we are service providers at all, we are providers of services which are both professional and personal, just like doctors, lawyers and so on (probably even business coaches and similar consultants).
Lawyers and medical doctors (and accountants and advertising people and even a bunch of business consultants, I'm sure) are not business partners and neither should translators be.
In me, the whole business partner talk evokes associations with a low-grade vendor-procurer/production line structure. I dislike it pretty much the same as I dislike the words 'outsourcing', 'outsourcer' etc.
We are practitioners. Some of us are 'officers of the court', too. Let's act the part.
| | | | John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 07:38
Member (2008)
French to English
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| Professional practice | Jul 25, 2014 |
On my tax return I am classified as operating a Professional practice and my Income (invoices to clients) is reported as Professional Fees.
It sounds a lot better than Freelancer, Self-Employed Person or other such terms that could be used by many low-skilled activities.
Perhaps we should use similar designations rather than "Freelancer".
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