| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] | Agency requesting deductions from invoice Thread poster: XXXphxxx (X)
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XXXphxxx (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:11
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Janet Rubin wrote:
In the meantime, have you checked to see if there are any English-language websites offered by the government or some industrious lawyers regarding debt collections/enforcement of this law?
I've only done a small amount of research on this as I am still hoping we won't have to go down that route, all I've found out so far is that the EU system set up for recovering small debts (up to 2000 euros) in cross-border situations covers all EU Member States apart from Denmark! http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/consumers/protection_of_consumers/l16028_en.htm
Otherwise, it appears to be a neat little system and useful for anyone else on this site in a similar situation.
A lot of further research is needed to see if there are any Danish websites that might offer helpful information on debt collection.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:11
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Paid and deducted 20% | Mar 30, 2010 |
The latest development on this is that they did not reply to my last email saying that I would not accept any deductions from my invoice and that in the light of the Danish Sale of Goods Act the law was not in their side. I see that they have just paid the invoice and deducted 20% from it. Anyone out there have any ideas of any form of mediation service, translation association etc I can approach in Denmark for help on this?
| | | | pcovs
Denmark
Local time: 22:11
English to Danish
| XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:11
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Translators association | Mar 30, 2010 |
PCovs wrote:
Very unprofessional of the agency to not reply and then simply deduct 20%!!!
They must think you will not be taking this any further.
[Edited at 2010-03-30 08:31 GMT]
Thanks PCovs. I have emailed the second link to see if I can get any help on this but I suspect I will need to be a Danish resident for this. I can't afford to drop this, it is too much money to me. They have behaved in a very shoddy manner, you would have thought that we had never had such a good business relationship. I'm so disappointed in their behaviour. I wonder also if there is a translators' association in Denmark whom you think may be able to offer some advice on this?
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pcovs
Denmark
Local time: 22:11
English to Danish
| Dansk Translatoerforbund | Mar 30, 2010 |
I would try them as the company in question seems to be one of their members.
You can find them here:
http://www.dtfb.dk/
They might be able to give you some advice and point you in the right direction.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:11
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:11
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The update on this situation is that I have reached an impasse with this agency which refuses to reply to any correspondence at all.
I sent them an e-mail setting out all the reasons why unilaterally deducting 20% from my invoice contravened Danish law and that they should have given the opportunity to revise this translation myself. I also asked for evidence that the client was dissatisfied since I had not seen anything at all and only had their word for it on this. Finally I tol... See more The update on this situation is that I have reached an impasse with this agency which refuses to reply to any correspondence at all.
I sent them an e-mail setting out all the reasons why unilaterally deducting 20% from my invoice contravened Danish law and that they should have given the opportunity to revise this translation myself. I also asked for evidence that the client was dissatisfied since I had not seen anything at all and only had their word for it on this. Finally I told them that I had felt obliged to give them a poor credit rating on several translators sites (they got a 1 on the BB from me). No reply. Since they were being so unhelpful and had refused to reply to my last 3 e-mails on this subject I felt justified in doing something I have never done before and I e-mailed the client who replied within the hour. In their reply (copied to the agency) they explained that they did not want to go into too much detail but it turns out that they had quibbled with some terminology on one of my translations, which they were unhappy with but not the second, so it would appear the agency had taken the opportunity to slash 20% from both jobs. I e-mailed them again - no reply.
I have also contacted the Danish State Translator's Association twice. No reply. The Danish Court Administration that handles small claims has been a bit more helpful and sent me a form to fill in although they have explained the form and process is logically enough in Danish (which I do not speak a word of).
Does anyone out there have any smart ideas on the next/final plan of attack? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Cut losses and move on? | Apr 14, 2010 |
I've been following this with great interest from the beginning. I can't imagine you will want to continue working with the agency, and vice-versa. I also don't recall if you mentioned what the word price was but it's basically irrelevant. With 23K words and 20% reduction we are talking about a magnitude of a few to several hundred euros, right? As unfair as it might be, I would cut my losses and move on.
I understand that you worked with this agency for years with no problems, but... See more I've been following this with great interest from the beginning. I can't imagine you will want to continue working with the agency, and vice-versa. I also don't recall if you mentioned what the word price was but it's basically irrelevant. With 23K words and 20% reduction we are talking about a magnitude of a few to several hundred euros, right? As unfair as it might be, I would cut my losses and move on.
I understand that you worked with this agency for years with no problems, but in the future, you may want to review your risk management. With very few exceptions, I don't work for clients in countries where I don't at least speak the language. It's anyone's guess as to whether I could navigate e.g. the Austrian legal system, but at least I have a fighting chance. ▲ Collapse
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XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:11
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Michele. I take your point and your suggestion which is eminently sensible. I would ordinarily cut my losses, I suppose I am still pushing this case as there is still some disbelief at the way they have acted after such a good and long working relationship. Times are also hard and the sum in question (just shy of €500 does hurt the pocket).
I also take your point about the countries I am working with, however if I was to wipe from my list any client located in a country where I d... See more Thanks Michele. I take your point and your suggestion which is eminently sensible. I would ordinarily cut my losses, I suppose I am still pushing this case as there is still some disbelief at the way they have acted after such a good and long working relationship. Times are also hard and the sum in question (just shy of €500 does hurt the pocket).
I also take your point about the countries I am working with, however if I was to wipe from my list any client located in a country where I don't speak the language I'd have to get rid of at least 50% of my clients, at least those based in the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adam Warren
France
Local time: 22:11
Member (2005)
French to English
| Legal advice regarding quality-related deduction claims: the ITI? | Sep 1, 2014 |
Hullo Lisa,
...didn't know where to turn for legal advice.
(Roughly quoted)
I'm going to add my two penn'rth and say that, while I was an ITI member, I got a lot of help in negotiating with agencies from the ITI headquarters and from the then head of the Wessex regional group, John Want.
The current ...didn't know where to turn for legal advice.
(Roughly quoted)
I'm going to add my two penn'rth and say that, while I was an ITI member, I got a lot of help in negotiating with agencies from the ITI headquarters and from the then head of the Wessex regional group, John Want.
The current ITI website advertises the following benefits, among others, for members:
- Help and advice in the members' area of the website
- A legal helpline offering free advice on a range of legal matters
- Free payment irregularities reporting and monitoring tool.
The topic you initiated is very instructive, and I particularly valued the local advice by 'PCovs'.
In my book, the description of the agency's behaviour very strongly suggests bad faith, as evidenced by a lot of unnecessary and even inconsistent revision, along with an exaggerated claim. I suggest you wring as inexpensively as possible whatever money you can from their unwilling hands and never work for them again.
Perhaps the intimidatory value of a solicitor's letter making out the case you have made here would suffice - investigate the cost and the possibilities laid open by the ITI. Actually taking the matter to court would be expensive, and only justified if several tens of thousands of pounds were at issue.
In this connection, I should like to raise elsewhere in ProZ.com's fora the connected, but not entirely germane topic of a client-revised translation that bears scant resemblance to the original of which the translation was ordered, with re-ordering of paragraphs. Suffice to say here that if I am offered work of this kind, jumbled up by the user client, I shall refuse it explicitly on the grounds that I see in this re-hashing prima facie evidence of the the end-client's bad faith - the initial translator is being given a mauling.
In bidding you God-speed, I should like to thank you again for your time and trouble in e-mailing me both the substance of the issue, and the link to this topic.
With kind regards and best wishes to you all,
Adam Warren (IanDhu - Translator/41189) ▲ Collapse
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:11
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Too much time has elapsed | Sep 1, 2014 |
Hi Adam,
Thank you for your valuable input on this.
You're right. It's something that I should have pursued, although at the time I wasn't an ITI member and part of me felt relieved to be rid of them - I was deeply disappointed with the way they behaved. I strongly suspect any claim would now be time-barred. I admit I chose the path of least resistance and do not condone my behaviour. I wouldn't recommend other translators let it drop so easily. It's only by standing u... See more Hi Adam,
Thank you for your valuable input on this.
You're right. It's something that I should have pursued, although at the time I wasn't an ITI member and part of me felt relieved to be rid of them - I was deeply disappointed with the way they behaved. I strongly suspect any claim would now be time-barred. I admit I chose the path of least resistance and do not condone my behaviour. I wouldn't recommend other translators let it drop so easily. It's only by standing up for what is right that we can put a stop to agencies who regularly take advantage of translators in this way.
To this day I still don't know what happened. Last year, this same agency asked me to work for them, my condition was that they pay me what they withheld, but they have insisted they don't want to revisit that episode and neither do I so I have declined any offers of future work from them and have no regrets on that front. ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 16:11
Member (2008)
French to English
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Lisa Simpson, MCIL MITI wrote:
... they have insisted they don't want to revisit that episode and neither do I so I have declined any offers of future work from them and have no regrets on that front.
Lisa, this is an old issue, but payment practices die hard and I hope this story got noted and rated on the BB so other translators can avoid revisiting the episode as well.
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XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:11
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@ John. I rated them immediately. They got a "1" from me with a note saying that anyone should feel free to contact me for details. It's prompted several e-mails over the years from people asking for more information and I always provide it. It was the first entry for this agency and since cottoning on to it, they've done their best to ensure several translators provide positive feedback on them. They've also annoyingly, four years after the event, (sneakily not including the year so it looks as... See more @ John. I rated them immediately. They got a "1" from me with a note saying that anyone should feel free to contact me for details. It's prompted several e-mails over the years from people asking for more information and I always provide it. It was the first entry for this agency and since cottoning on to it, they've done their best to ensure several translators provide positive feedback on them. They've also annoyingly, four years after the event, (sneakily not including the year so it looks as if it's been posted a month after mine) included a reply on the BB saying that they take payment very seriously indeed and I should contact them to resolve any issues asap. This is after telling me quite categorically that they wouldn't pay the balance. If they were so keen to resolve issues they could quite easily e-mail me. It's an attempt to plaster over the cracks and also reflects how flaky the BB actually is. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adam Warren
France
Local time: 22:11
Member (2005)
French to English
| The client must show good faith | Sep 15, 2014 |
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
(...)
Nevertheless, you are a victim of the financial crisis.
As you say
"all numbers written as digits (as per source file and left as such for ease of reference) have ALL been rewritten as numbers in words"
Therefore it's not an issue of quality. It's an issue of the client or the agency trying to get a big discount by "discovering" errors, even if they don't exist.
(...)
Hullo, as I think said to Lisa, I have had occasion to do 'QAs' (quality assessments) of texts that bore a tenuous relationship to the source text for the translation, having been reworked by the end-client.
After a lot of thought, I have decided that if, on receipt of a text to revise or re-revise, I find it to have been - no doubt mischievously - hacked about by the client and/or end client, I shall reject the task, stating that I must have a text revised by the end client that substantially reflects the source text in content and structure. My experience of wasting time reviewing these inordinately re-arranged texts leads me to the decision that, if the client produces a substantially-altered text to revise, and fails to produce a properly-revised translation duly reflecting the source, then that I view as prima facie evidence of bad faith on its part.
In which connection, I have no reason to doubt Lisa's competence, nor have I any doubt at all that she's been mucked about by an agency acting in palpable bad faith, compounded with linguistic incompetence: a victim of the financial crisis, as Eleftherios judiciously points out.
I commiserate with her for the heartache and the time-wasting her ungentlemanly client's agissements have occasioned her.
With kind regards,
Adam Warren
(IanDhu - Translator/41189)
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