| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] | The Myth of the .04 Translator Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
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| OK, so where do we spread the story of the great clients and great agencies? | Jun 30, 2015 |
I have always wanted to start a counterpart (counterweight?) to the naming-and-shaming lists and scam warnings.
It wouldn't work of course - scammers would scam their way onto it, and well-derserving small agencies occasionally grow too big for anybody's good...
But we must remember to add a good story and mention viable rates just as frequently, one way or another. These things ARE self-reinforcing!
| | | | | We are not allowed to name and shame on Proz, so | Jun 30, 2015 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
I have always wanted to start a counterpart (counterweight?) to the naming-and-shaming lists and scam warnings.
It wouldn't work of course - scammers would scam their way onto it, and well-derserving small agencies occasionally grow too big for anybody's good...
But we must remember to add a good story and mention viable rates just as frequently, one way or another. These things ARE self-reinforcing!
a counterpart would be against the rules too, wouldn't it?
| | | | | This sounds quite reassuring! | Jun 30, 2015 |
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
A total of more than 60 quotes came in from all over the world (U.S., Canada, Venezuela, Argentina, Switzerland, France, India, etc.). The results were not at all what I had been led to expect. Not a single quote was under .07. Even quotes from South American countries were in the .08 to .15 range (US$). Quite a number of the quotes were for over .15 and the highest was .30 with an average of about 0.13. What really made me proud was that a lot of translators refused to provide a rate at all, stating that they needed to view the document first or required more information about me or about the job. A few even asked for more time in order to do a better job. One translator’s quote was so utterly impressive that I forgot for a moment that this was merely an experiment and I almost offered her the job!
I almost got the impression, reading here and elsewhere, that people work (or, still worse: quote themselves) at a price with which they dig their own grave as they will never survive with such ridiculous rates.
It would be interesting though to repeat this "experiment" nowadays, 5 years later 
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I am still a very very new newbie (in fact: officially I'm starting tomorrow).
At university (Master in Translation), our teachers already advised us not to quote too low, but we never really got into the figures.
I was thinking about starting at 0,08€/word (depending on a variety of factors, but that that would be my "standard" rate for a while, until I get confident enough to charge a bit more), but already got the idea that I would have to go lower in order to "land" a job. ... See more I am still a very very new newbie (in fact: officially I'm starting tomorrow).
At university (Master in Translation), our teachers already advised us not to quote too low, but we never really got into the figures.
I was thinking about starting at 0,08€/word (depending on a variety of factors, but that that would be my "standard" rate for a while, until I get confident enough to charge a bit more), but already got the idea that I would have to go lower in order to "land" a job.
This thread convinced me that I shouldn't quote lower. Thank you very much. ▲ Collapse
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| There are plenty of other sites! | Jun 30, 2015 |
writeaway wrote: Christine Andersen wrote:
I have always wanted to start a counterpart (counterweight?) to the naming-and-shaming lists and scam warnings.
It wouldn't work of course - scammers would scam their way onto it, and well-derserving small agencies occasionally grow too big for anybody's good...
But we must remember to add a good story and mention viable rates just as frequently, one way or another. These things ARE self-reinforcing!
a counterpart would be against the rules too, wouldn't it?
The nearest we have here is the Blue Board... but there are plenty of other sites where you can find names.
I feel it is such a pity we don't have an honours list or a way of thanking those who DO play by the rules, go the extra mile and make a translator's life profitable. 
They would probably be spammed out of business, so maybe not.
| | | | | Each translator's own list of "good clients" is never published | Jun 30, 2015 |
Christine Andersen wrote: I feel it is such a pity we don't have an honours list or a way of thanking those who DO play by the rules, go the extra mile and make a translator's life profitable. They would probably be spammed out of business, so maybe not.
I really do my best to assist my clients who deserve it in every possible way. If they need translators in other language pairs, other specialty areas, I'll refer them to the most capable colleagues I know. If they need something extra I can do after a job has been delivered, paid for, and closed, I'll do it, usually at no charge.
Yesterday I had one such case. One of these good clients, an agency, sent me a bunch of additional phrases to translate, some pieces the end-client added later to a relatively large mid-size job. If I were to charge for that, it would represent a low two-digit figure in USD. I know they would pay it immediately, as usual. However I chose not to charge anything, and told them it was covered by my "warranty". They were quite thankful (though it's probably the umpteenth time I do it for them).
Quoting from my reply to their thanks message:
Sometimes it's the client's oversight, and occasionally it may be my own mistakes, since I am an imperfect human being, what makes finished jobs return to the drawing board.
I know it's a hassle for any agency to invoice the end client for a few bucks, while the cost in goodwill (also between me and the agency) is at least ten times the amount involved.
So this is included in my rates & terms. Countless translation agencies everywhere have developed the habit of imposing their rates and terms upon translators. In exchange, I impose my wish of not serving them.
When an agency accepts my rates and terms, I'll have tacitly accepted their requirements, whatever they are. This is what makes the game fair.
| | | | Jeff Whittaker 
United States
Local time: 05:51
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I have considered an agency rating site... | Jun 30, 2015 |
...where agencies would be rated by clients not translators. Then, if an agency can somehow miraculously produce good work and happy customers for 0.12 a word, then so be it (although we would still suspect that the customers don't know what they are getting).
The problem is that this would be a full-time job to weed out scammers (like the BlueBoard some would solicit reviews from every customer) and fake posts and there would be no way to monetize it without jeopardizing its integr... See more ...where agencies would be rated by clients not translators. Then, if an agency can somehow miraculously produce good work and happy customers for 0.12 a word, then so be it (although we would still suspect that the customers don't know what they are getting).
The problem is that this would be a full-time job to weed out scammers (like the BlueBoard some would solicit reviews from every customer) and fake posts and there would be no way to monetize it without jeopardizing its integrity. Clients would probably not pay to access and translation companies would only pay as long as they maintain a good rating (compromising the honesty of the site).
Right now all we have is ratings from the agency employees: http://www.glassdoor.com/index.htm
[Edited at 2015-06-30 13:05 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 15:21
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | The only reason | Jul 2, 2015 |
Merab Dekano wrote:
I’m yet to discover why large volume jobs should be cheaper; they require significantly more attention to assure consistency in terminology.
Large jobs kind of hedge against the uncertainty involved in our profession about when (or if) the next job will come. With large jobs, you can be assured of work for long periods, and for this assurance, some people would be ready to bear with a slight dip in their overall hypothetical incomes at higher rates.
Also, large jobs, especially in the technology industries, can actually be easier to do, because less terminology research is required, and TMs can provide greater help (of course, that involves the risk of fuzzy rates!), and once you get into the job, the momentum will carry you forward part of the way. It is like steady cruising on the highway will save you more petrol than the stop-start city driving.
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Have you thought of repeating your experiment and wording your posts slightly different, e.g. one that lets shine through that you are looking for the best translator for the job, and another one with some usual phrases that indicate that price is a major factor in your decision?
Wonder whether there would be completely different people applying and whether there is a difference in prices offered.
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 05:51
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | New experiment | Jul 2, 2015 |
No, but I have thought about an experiment (that would require a monetary investment) in which I would create a short document full of "translation traps" (including at least one non-existent word just to see what the translator woudl do - omit, make a note, guess, etc.) and have it translated by translators at different price levels (at least 2 at each price point) and using different sources (professional agency vs on-line automated portal) in order to compare the results received.
Gabriele Demuth wrote:
Have you thought of repeating your experiment and wording your posts slightly different, e.g. one that lets shine through that you are looking for the best translator for the job, and another one with some usual phrases that indicate that price is a major factor in your decision?
Wonder whether there would be completely different people applying and whether there is a difference in prices offered.
[Edited at 2015-07-02 16:25 GMT]
| | | | | I recently posted on the job board here | Jul 2, 2015 |
Edited: I forgot a zero (= 3000 words, not 300)!
There was a court decision included in the appendix of a book I was translating and I posted it on the job board here. The posting made it clear that I was an outsourcer, but also that I was looking for a good translation and in no way suggested that I was looking for a low-ball offer. A link to the source text was included and I emphasized that I was looking for an experienced translator with some kind of credentials (degree or work ... See more Edited: I forgot a zero (= 3000 words, not 300)!
There was a court decision included in the appendix of a book I was translating and I posted it on the job board here. The posting made it clear that I was an outsourcer, but also that I was looking for a good translation and in no way suggested that I was looking for a low-ball offer. A link to the source text was included and I emphasized that I was looking for an experienced translator with some kind of credentials (degree or work experience) in the legal field and preferably a native speaker of English. The deadline was tight, but in no way ridiculous (three days for somewhat less than 3000 words).
I received 13 offers, 12 of them were between 0.06 EUR and 0.12 EUR per word (I couldn't find the rate of the offer). There were two quotes at 0.12 EUR, but only a total of four were 0.10 EUR or higher. Only three of the offers fulfilled the requirement of credentials in the legal field. Interestingly, the 0.06 EUR offer was from one of these and they (apparently two translators working in tandem) almost certainly would have gotten the project if they had provided a higher quote. It wasn't a matter of principle, but it didn't make any sense: I assumed (rightly or wrongly) that if they were that qualified and also good, then they wouldn't have time to be working a that rate.
[Edited at 2015-07-03 08:18 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 05:51
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | It is possible that.. | Jul 2, 2015 |
.. they were offering you this very low rate since it was a small project and they wanted the opportunity to show you how good they are. However, they probably should have mentioned that this was just a one-time introductory discount.
On the other hand, they don't know you and in most cases, a client that only wants a cheap .06 translation would be very resistant to paying .12
Michael Wetzel wrote:
Interestingly, the 0.06 EUR offer was from one of these and they (apparently two translators working in tandem) almost certainly would have gotten the project if they had provided a higher quote. It wasn't a matter of principle, but it didn't make any sense: I assumed (rightly or wrongly) that if they were that qualified and also good, then they wouldn't have time to be working a that rate.
[Edited at 2015-07-02 16:30 GMT]
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