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The Myth of the .04 Translator
Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
Brian Young
Brian Young  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:20
Danish to English
Your Mom Feb 18, 2010

Hey Jeff
I agree with all the others; your mom sounds great!
What's her name, and can we get her phone number?

[Edited at 2010-02-18 16:22 GMT]


 
David Russi
David Russi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:20
English to Spanish
+ ...
It is not a myth Feb 18, 2010

Just posted:

https://www.mail2web.com/cgi-bin/redir.asp?lid=0&newsite=http://www.proz.com/topic/158311

In case you don't speak Spanish, this person wants advice on whether it is OK not to quote a rate to the agency so as to be able to accept an agency's lower rate... and ends the post saying "I know I could be taken advant
... See more
Just posted:

https://www.mail2web.com/cgi-bin/redir.asp?lid=0&newsite=http://www.proz.com/topic/158311

In case you don't speak Spanish, this person wants advice on whether it is OK not to quote a rate to the agency so as to be able to accept an agency's lower rate... and ends the post saying "I know I could be taken advantage of ... sometimes I think if I had bid .05 USD instead of .08 USD I might have gotten the job."

Low-rate translators are out there, no question, as are low-rate agencies, especially in certain language combinations that are more susceptible to rate pressures.
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Oleg Rudavin
Oleg Rudavin  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 04:20
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
Last week's offer: Feb 18, 2010

Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote: I have said it in the past, just look at the average age of proz members. Eventually prices will go to a level corresponding to the translator who:
- lives with mom and dad and will never leave them (unless the future spouse is generous)
I live with my wife and two daughter and have been supporting my sister and mon till last year when she died
- doesn't have a car (how many proz members have their own car?)
I have three
- is not officially registered (most are not, in my experience)
I am; luckily, Ukrainian tax system is VERY loyal
- if married, then spouse is the breadwinner
I'm the only earner in the family of seven. Not that they don't help me; they do, and quite a lot, but I'm actually the only one to bring money home.

That's why, when getting another offer of collaboration, I quoted .23 for that particular job and got it. My PB so far.
There's MUCH more to translation than many of us can imagine...

[Edited at 2010-02-18 18:48 GMT]


 
Cedomir Pusica
Cedomir Pusica  Identity Verified
Serbia
Local time: 03:20
Member (2009)
English to Serbian
+ ...
Better do nothing than work for nothing... Feb 19, 2010

I grew up with this particular phrase, but was never raised to be lazy. On the contrary... I would agree with Tomas - .04 (or less) translation quotes are forced. The real question is: how low would you go to land a job?

And, yes, your mom is right.


 
Natalia Mackevich
Natalia Mackevich  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:20
English to Russian
+ ...
"Please understand that we do not have the resources to pay you for this project" Feb 23, 2010

Speaking of lower rates.
I just received a job notification, opened it and here's what I saw: "Please understand that we do not have the resources to pay you for this project". It's not a myth, it's reality. At least, they clearly state that this is "for VOLUNTEER translators". Like, crowdsourcing. Poor children...


 
Amélie Ragot
Amélie Ragot  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 03:20
English to French
+ ...
"It is a small job, would you like to do it free of charge?" Feb 24, 2010

Natalia Mackevich wrote:

Speaking of lower rates.
I just received a job notification, opened it and here's what I saw: "Please understand that we do not have the resources to pay you for this project". It's not a myth, it's reality.


I was contacted under a similar approach a few weeks ago. An agency I had never worked with before asked me whether I could do a rush translation for them, specifying: "It is a small job, would you like to do it free of charge?". I replied that out of a principle the only translations I do for free go to NGOs. The agency finally agreed to pay me for the work but this is not the point. The point is, agencies like the one I have just mentioned are bold enough to offer such appalling rates because translators out there are willing to accept them. In other words, as long as there will be translators selling themselves for starving rates, I am afraid the myth of the 0.4 translator will live on.


 
Aguas de Mar (X)
Aguas de Mar (X)
Well, you are not alone... Feb 25, 2010

ildiko wrote:

Ken Fagan wrote:
Just yesterday (16 Feb), a colleague forwarded to me the following job offer


Please don't start throwing rocks at me folks but I HAVE TO ask!
Ken - in getting more well-paying jobs, does it help that you look *exactly* like George Clooney?



... I was wondering exactly the same thing...

Samuel Murray wrote:

A similar question was asked of a guy whose avatar was some other film star. He said that he had used his real photo for an avatar for a while, but found that he got more jobs when he used a photo of some well-known person (as his avatar).


You mean that the picture is not the real Ken? How disappointing. I was beginning to think there were more men like Clooney around, and that maybe some day I would get to meet one... at a translator's workshop, for example...

[Edited at 2010-02-25 02:09 GMT]


 
Ildiko Santana
Ildiko Santana  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:20
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
0.035 GBP per word Mar 2, 2010

In a very recent job posting, 0.035 GBP per word is offered for translation and 0.015 GBP per word for proofreading.

Sadly, this outrageous method does work and is an increasingly popular business solution. Outsourcer will have the job translated at 0.035 GBP per word --> quite possibly the quality will be barely acceptable at best, but no worries! --> they can have it proofread at 0.015 GBP per word. The total cost is still a measly 0.05 GBP per word.

App
... See more
In a very recent job posting, 0.035 GBP per word is offered for translation and 0.015 GBP per word for proofreading.

Sadly, this outrageous method does work and is an increasingly popular business solution. Outsourcer will have the job translated at 0.035 GBP per word --> quite possibly the quality will be barely acceptable at best, but no worries! --> they can have it proofread at 0.015 GBP per word. The total cost is still a measly 0.05 GBP per word.

Apparently that's not considered an outrageously low rate, since 126 bids have been submitted already on this job. That means one hundred and twenty six professional translators are ready to work for peanuts... I mean... pennies.

I personally think that these rates are nothing but a shame and a disgrace to our profession, and this trend is contributing to the increasing number of poor quality translations popping up all over the world lately. I don't believe there is any other way to stop or at least slow down this trend but to not accept such outrageous pricing. Highly unlikely to happen with the economy being as it is today.
: (

Lastly, a new poll idea:
can you name at least one other profession where providers are making less now than 10 years ago?

[Edited at 2010-03-02 18:18 GMT]
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Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Laurent KRAULAND (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 03:20
French to German
+ ...
As the saying goes... Mar 2, 2010

ildiko wrote:
(.../...)
If you think that's bad, look at the bid log: 126 bids have been submitted already! That means one hundred and twenty six "professional translators"(?) are ready to work for pennies. Or, should I say, willing to work for peanuts...
What a shame. What a disgrace to our profession.
: (


As the saying goes, "no-one forces them translators to accept infra dig rates"... The best thing I have heard today is that bilingual people addicted to virtual worlds will actually accept to "execute" translations and to be paid in that virtual world's currency.

Cheaper than any $ 0.01 job, as it seems.

[Edited at 2010-03-02 17:43 GMT]


 
Alex Eames
Alex Eames
Local time: 02:20
English to Polish
+ ...
Execution is the answer Mar 4, 2010

Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
The best thing I have heard today is that bilingual people addicted to virtual worlds will actually accept to "execute" translations and to be paid in that virtual world's currency.


Perhaps they are the ones who ought to be executed?


 
Daina Jauntirans
Daina Jauntirans  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:20
German to English
+ ...
Agree with Michele Mar 4, 2010

Michele Johnson wrote:

Have I understood this correctly? Basically, you wasted the time and effort of more than 60 people who applied for your fake job? Maybe it's just me, but this seems like a major red flag for your potential partners.


I think it would have been better to post a real job, too, maybe a test translation and then you might actually have a list of translators you could outsource to when you're on vacation, etc. I guess you have a list of contacts now, too, but if they read this forum, they may not be too pleased that they were used for an experiment.


 
Beba Maranz
Beba Maranz
Switzerland
Local time: 03:20
German to French
+ ...
Truth is hard to bear, Mar 6, 2010

isn't it?

 
Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:20
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The Myth of the .04 Translator? Jun 30, 2015

I just came across this old post from 2010, and because of my use of a special character, the original post got cut off, so I am re-posting it here unchanged. Is it still true today?

"I got a little discouraged last month after viewing the websites of a few local translation “agencies”. Their impressive-looking sites were filled with the usual industry jargon about quality and made claims from “no translation over .10 a word ever” to “we have over 42,000 qualified translat
... See more
I just came across this old post from 2010, and because of my use of a special character, the original post got cut off, so I am re-posting it here unchanged. Is it still true today?

"I got a little discouraged last month after viewing the websites of a few local translation “agencies”. Their impressive-looking sites were filled with the usual industry jargon about quality and made claims from “no translation over .10 a word ever” to “we have over 42,000 qualified translators at our disposal”. Yes, there certainly are people who work for less than .05 a word for a variety of reasons, including geographic location and economic necessity. However, I wondered whether this was really such a wide-spread phenomenon or if perhaps such offers were seemingly more abundant and frequent due to the inherent difficulty in finding (good) and keeping (good) translators willing to work for these companies and due to the numerous blog articles about declining rates and posts pointing out the latest low-rate job du jour. Are we perhaps creating our own reality by discussing it so frequently?

Therefore, I decided to conduct a small test. I posted a few jobs on a translation job portal (not this site!) in two of my language pairs. Each job was over 10,000 words and the subject was legal, but relatively simple. A short sample text was provided. The deadline of three weeks was more than adequate and I made absolutely no mention of price. I also did not use any of the common catch-phrases such as “please give us your best rate”, “do this one cheap and more work will follow” or other such attrape-nigauds.

As I sat back and waited for the quotes to come in, I wondered if perhaps I had made a mistake. Did I really want to know how low some of the offers would be? After all, we keep hearing about all these so-called amateur translators floating around out there in cyberspace who are allegedly willing to sell their firstborn child just for the chance at getting that illusive translation project. In addition, one of the pairs (Spanish into English) is purportedly notorious for being low budget. Thus, it was with a great degree of trepidation that I opened the quotes and braced myself for the worst.

A total of more than 60 quotes came in from all over the world (U.S., Canada, Venezuela, Argentina, Switzerland, France, India, etc.). The results were not at all what I had been led to expect. Not a single quote was under .07. Even quotes from South American countries were in the .08 to .15 range (US$). Quite a number of the quotes were for over .15 and the highest was .30 with an average of about 0.13. What really made me proud was that a lot of translators refused to provide a rate at all, stating that they needed to view the document first or required more information about me or about the job. A few even asked for more time in order to do a better job. One translator’s quote was so utterly impressive that I forgot for a moment that this was merely an experiment and I almost offered her the job!

It would be foolish to state that globalization has not had a decided impact on the cost of translation services. However, it is clear that our view of the extent of this impact is most-definitely skewed because it is so frequently discussed. We would never write a post about receiving an e-mail from a potential client offering us a great new project at .18 a word because no one would be interested. Instead, only low-rate requests get discussed. Good paying jobs rarely get posted because there is no need. Instead, all we see are the leftovers. As my mother told me last week, “Jeff, you work with other translators all day long and sometimes you forget that very few people can do the work you do.” I guess mother really does know best. "

My favorite response. Still true?

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

Jeff,

Your experiment's conclusion is limited to say that no translator unprompted will quote less than 7¢.

To lure the 4¢ translators out of the closet, you'd have to phrase your job ad like this:

Due to causes beyond our control, our budget for this translation is limited to 5¢/word. Though this is below our usual standards, we will be unable to pay more this time. So kindly refrain from bidding if you are unable to work for this price. Actually, lower rates will increase your likelihod of being assigned this project, as well as many future ones at better pay."






[Edited at 2015-06-30 00:17 GMT]
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Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:20
English to German
+ ...
It's no myth Jun 30, 2015

In your experiment, you didn't demand the best rate, you didn't address those translators who actually engage in the undercutting to the bottom race or at least they thought they didn't have to in this case. But that race is on. You can check. And a few posters in this thread give examples. And many job posters demand much lower prices and price ranges than the ones you researched, and lots of people apply.
I hope level-headed people and informed newbies will not engage in this bad practic
... See more
In your experiment, you didn't demand the best rate, you didn't address those translators who actually engage in the undercutting to the bottom race or at least they thought they didn't have to in this case. But that race is on. You can check. And a few posters in this thread give examples. And many job posters demand much lower prices and price ranges than the ones you researched, and lots of people apply.
I hope level-headed people and informed newbies will not engage in this bad practice, and those left racing will "crash" in the end. Because how long can you really go so low?

[Edited at 2015-06-30 05:00 GMT]
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Merab Dekano
Merab Dekano  Identity Verified
Spain
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Bravo! Jun 30, 2015

Jeff Whittaker wrote:



A total of more than 60 quotes came in from all over the world (U.S., Canada, Venezuela, Argentina, Switzerland, France, India, etc.). The results were not at all what I had been led to expect. Not a single quote was under .07. Even quotes from South American countries were in the .08 to .15 range (US$). Quite a number of the quotes were for over .15 and the highest was .30 with an average of about 0.13. What really made me proud was that a lot of translators refused to provide a rate at all, stating that they needed to view the document first or required more information about me or about the job. A few even asked for more time in order to do a better job. One translator’s quote was so utterly impressive that I forgot for a moment that this was merely an experiment and I almost offered her the job!




Nemo dat quod non habet. 0.3 “translators” do not make a living with it, because in the first place they are not translators at all. How can they quote more if they have nothing to offer? If they “land” a job, because they've gone even lower, the first though that will pop they little minds will be: “now what”?

The only reason you got reasonably decent quotes is that you targeted translators. Change your post and say something like: “we can only afford very competitive rates” or “volume discounts are expected”, and you will scare away real professionals (I’m yet to discover why large volume jobs should be cheaper; they require significantly more attention to assure consistency in terminology).


 
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The Myth of the .04 Translator







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