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Glossary-building KudoZ (GBK): a new kind of KudoZ question
Thread poster: Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 11:21
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER
For users who do not want GBK to be part of their ProZ.com experience Dec 1, 2008

It is clear that some users do not want glossary-building questions to be part of their ProZ.com experience. This is of course a valid choice and they can find below the steps to achieve this condition, as described in a dedicated FAQ.


(1) Deactivate GBK notifications by checking the option "Ignore glossary-building questions" and clicking on "Save settings" in the KudoZ dashboard.




(2) De-select the option "Show glossary-building questions" at "KudoZ" -> "answer questions" and then click the "View questions (and save settings)" button.



(3) Hide the GBK box from the home page.

If you experience any problem with these instructions please submit a support request

With these instructions in mind, I would kindly ask that we return to the topic of this thread, GBK features and possible improvements. Thanks to all for your cooperation and your feedback so far.

Regards,
Enrique
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Siegfried Armbruster
Siegfried Armbruster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:21
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Thanks again Enrique Dec 1, 2008

Enrique wrote:
As usual, your feedback is much welcome.


I think you made it clear what kind of feedback you want.

Siegfried


 
Mirra_
Mirra_
Italy
Local time: 15:21
English to Italian
+ ...
tecnichal note Dec 2, 2008

GBK is thought to yeld a standardized glossary trasnlation of specific 'PRO' terms
so
why the fill-in process allows the users to 'jump' the steps?

If you/we want to create a reliable glossary, all entry fields should be completed.
It will be quite simple, I guess, to modify the setting to oblige the Answerer to complete one step to be allowed to go on to the next one.

Am I wrong in suggesting this?...
See more
GBK is thought to yeld a standardized glossary trasnlation of specific 'PRO' terms
so
why the fill-in process allows the users to 'jump' the steps?

If you/we want to create a reliable glossary, all entry fields should be completed.
It will be quite simple, I guess, to modify the setting to oblige the Answerer to complete one step to be allowed to go on to the next one.

Am I wrong in suggesting this?

kind regards
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Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 11:21
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER
Please consider submitting a support request Dec 2, 2008

Mary Georgina Hardinge wrote:

Copy-pasted links did not seem to be accepted when I tried posting an answer so I eventually gave up and posted a discussion message instead.


Hi Mary,

If you could submit a support request next time you have such a problem, including a copy of the problematic link, it can help us improve the system.

Regards,
Enrique


 
Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 11:21
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER
It should complete each step before moving into the next Dec 2, 2008

Mirra_ wrote:

GBK is thought to yeld a standardized glossary trasnlation of specific 'PRO' terms
so
why the fill-in process allows the users to 'jump' the steps?

If you/we want to create a reliable glossary, all entry fields should be completed.
It will be quite simple, I guess, to modify the setting to oblige the Answerer to complete one step to be allowed to go on to the next one.

kind regards


Hi Mirra,

The answering interface should take you page after page, and you should provide all required information before moving into the next page. Maybe there is a problem here. What are the steps you are able to "jump"?

Thanks in advance,
Enrique


 
Nicole Schnell
Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:21
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Glossary or not - I noticed something Dec 2, 2008

How disciplined questions and answers can be all of the sudden. Proper context, wonderful well thought-out answers, backed by references.

Should be standard.


 
Mirra_
Mirra_
Italy
Local time: 15:21
English to Italian
+ ...
step & jump ;) Dec 2, 2008

Enrique wrote:

The answering interface should take you page after page, and you should provide all required information before moving into the next page. Maybe there is a problem here. What are the steps you are able to "jump"?



Dear Enrique,

I saw it happen in more than one GBK. Like this one:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_italian/forestry_wood_timber/2963920-understory.html

As you can see there are only two example sentences (instead of three) and the first of them has got no link. Also, there is no explanation.

So it seems to be possible to jump some steps, or, part of them...

Kind regards
Paola


 
Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 11:21
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER
The "missing link" was a good finding! Dec 3, 2008

Mirra_ wrote:

Enrique wrote:

The answering interface should take you page after page, and you should provide all required information before moving into the next page. Maybe there is a problem here. What are the steps you are able to "jump"?



Dear Enrique,

I saw it happen in more than one GBK. Like this one:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_italian/forestry_wood_timber/2963920-understory.html

As you can see there are only two example sentences (instead of three) and the first of them has got no link. Also, there is no explanation.

So it seems to be possible to jump some steps, or, part of them...



Dear Paola,

Thanks for sharing this information and your concern.

The requirements for a proper GBK answer include a term, a definition and at least one example sentence. Additional example sentences and explanation information are a plus, but not part of the core requirement.

On the other hand, the example without a link is not in line with the required information, and it should not have been allowed by the system. We will investigate this.

Thanks for your feedback!
Enrique


 
Adele Oliveri
Adele Oliveri  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 15:21
Member (2007)
English to Italian
+ ...
General feedback from the EN>IT combination so far Dec 3, 2008

Dear all

a few GBK questions have already been posted in the EN>IT combination. I myself have tried my hand at a couple of them, but I am not entirely convinced of the way the system is set up. Several comments have also been made by other colleagues in the EN>IT pair. I will do my best to summarize some of them.

a. GBK entries should really be "PRO" level. Of the terms posted in the EN > IT combination so far, qu
... See more
Dear all

a few GBK questions have already been posted in the EN>IT combination. I myself have tried my hand at a couple of them, but I am not entirely convinced of the way the system is set up. Several comments have also been made by other colleagues in the EN>IT pair. I will do my best to summarize some of them.

a. GBK entries should really be "PRO" level. Of the terms posted in the EN > IT combination so far, quite a few of them (digital divide, mudslinging, behaviorism, informed consent, etc.) were not "PRO" level questions at all. They could have easily been answered by anyone with a good knowledge of the English language and a general dictionary - no need to be a professional translator specialized in the subject area to suggest / choose the best answer (provided a "best" answer exists - see b. below). Giving 4 points in the PRO-level category for a "correct" answer to these questions is UNFAIR to those who actually devote a lot of their time and effort to answering real PRO-level questions, which require a deep knowledge of the subject and excellent linguistic and research skills. So either GBK should become a different point category or answerers/peer graders should be given a chance to vote "NON PRO" on those questions, as with normal Kudoz questions.

b. There are terms for which no "BEST" solution exist. While the correct translation of "behaviorism" is "comportamentismo", "mudslinging" admits at least three or four slightly different and equally correct translations into Italian. It is simply NOT possible to choose THE BEST translation without context; there's a heated discussion going on about this (indeed, it makes little sense to have a glossary entry at all in this case). To solve this problem, either multiple translations should be admitted or answerers / peers should be able to vote NOT to include the term in the glossary (since no single BEST translation exist).

c. People who have a subject in their "WORK" field should be given a chance to vote and grade questions. There's no reason for limiting answers to people who say they "specialize" in a given field, since the questions I've seen posted so far could have been answered by anyone with a good knowledge of the English language.

d. GBK questions should only be posted occasionally and at times of low traffic (e.g. the week-end), to avoid "crowding out" requests for help (which should indeed be the main priority of Kudoz). On the same token, a colleague has kindly pointed out to me that GBK questions feature very prominently on the proz.com homepage, way above the normal Kudoz questions. Why is it so? Why GBK questions should deserve so much more visibility than the questions of people asking for help (which often raise far more interesting linguistic issues than GBKs)?

e. GBK questions should not overlap with entries already in the Kudoz glossary. What's the point of having a new GBK question if an identical term is already in the glossary (either Kudoz or personal) and correct translation has already been provided? It would be much better to clean up the existing glossary and ONLY afterwards start adding the GBK. Maybe we will find there is no need for an additional GBK glossary after all

f. As a final suggestion, maybe it would be a lot better to implement the GBK answer interface (term + definition + references, etc.) for the Kudoz section, dropping GBKs all together. If answerers were "forced" to conform to a given standard when answering questions (providing definition, providing links and references, etc.), you would get a "cleaner" Kudoz section which would automatically generate nice accurate glossaries.

I would be really interested in knowing what others think about this.
Thanks for reading my post to the end.

Adele

P.S. I almost forgot to mention. The GBK interface did not accept the following link:

http://www.centrostudifinanza.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:la-crisi-finanziaria-mondiale-dalla-deregulation-alla-re-regulation&catid=48:varie&Itemid=40

Although it was a perfectly valid link.

[Edited at 2008-12-03 09:17 GMT]
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Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 11:21
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for your feedback! Dec 3, 2008

Adele Oliveri wrote:
a. GBK entries should really be "PRO" level. Of the terms posted in the EN > IT combination so far, quite a few of them (digital divide, mudslinging, behaviorism, informed consent, etc.) were not "PRO" level questions at all. They could have easily been answered by anyone with a good knowledge of the English language and a general dictionary


In fact, Non-PRO questions are those that are asked by people who are not professional translators, and that can be answered by any bilingual person without the aid of a dictionary.

Questions are currently being created by staff, but this task will be handled soon to specialists in the different fields.


b. There are terms for which no "BEST" solution exist. While the correct translation of "behaviorism" is "comportamentismo", "mudslinging" admits at least three or four slightly different and equally correct translations into Italian. It is simply NOT possible to choose THE BEST translation without context; there's a heated discussion going on about this (indeed, it makes little sense to have a glossary entry at all in this case). To solve this problem, either multiple translations should be admitted or answerers / peers should be able to vote NOT to include the term in the glossary (since no single BEST translation exist).


The improvement of the GBK glossary to handle, among other things, synonyms, will be a next priority once the current GBK platform is established.


c. People who have a subject in their "WORK" field should be given a chance to vote and grade questions. There's no reason for limiting answers to people who say they "specialize" in a given field, since the questions I've seen posted so far could have been answered by anyone with a good knowledge of the English language.


People with the field(s) of expertise among their working ones can vote if the question was not closed during the submission phase (first 72 hours). Questions are likely to become more specialized once they are created by experts.


d. GBK questions should only be posted occasionally and at times of low traffic (e.g. the week-end), to avoid "crowding out" requests for help (which should indeed be the main priority of Kudoz). On the same token, a colleague has kindly pointed out to me that GBK questions feature very prominently on the proz.com homepage, way above the normal Kudoz questions. Why is it so? Why GBK questions should deserve so much more visibility than the questions of people asking for help (which often raise far more interesting linguistic issues than GBKs)?


Participation in GBK questions is limited by several considerations and in my opinion it is not likely to reduce the availability of answerers for "help" questions. The GBK box in the home page can be relocated or even hidden, see this FAQ.


e. GBK questions should not overlap with entries already in the Kudoz glossary. What's the point of having a new GBK question if an identical term is already in the glossary (either Kudoz or personal) and correct translation has already been provided? It would be much better to clean up the existing glossary and ONLY afterwards start adding the GBK. Maybe we will find there is no need for an additional GBK glossary after all


Having a term in "help" and GBK glossaries should not be a problem because (1) the format of the question and answers is different and (2) the "help" entry is confined to a single language pair, while the GBK entry will be part of a multi-lingual glossary.


f. As a final suggestion, maybe it would be a lot better to implement the GBK answer interface (term + definition + references, etc.) for the Kudoz section, dropping GBKs all together. If answerers were "forced" to conform to a given standard when answering questions (providing definition, providing links and references, etc.), you would get a "cleaner" Kudoz section which would automatically generate nice accurate glossaries.


The main goal of the "help" KudoZ system is to provide those in need of translation assistance with timely help. The fact that an archive of previously posted terms with suggested translations has been built is a planned, yet peripheral, benefit.

GBK questions include several restrictions on answers because its main objective is the creation of a glossary. This difference in objectives makes them different.


P.S. I almost forgot to mention. The GBK interface did not accept the following link:

http://www.centrostudifinanza.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:la-crisi-finanziaria-mondiale-dalla-deregulation-alla-re-regulation&catid=48:varie&Itemid=40

Although it was a perfectly valid link.


Thanks for pointing this out. This will be investigated and solved.

Thanks a lot for your feedback!
Enrique


 
Dr. Matthias Schauen
Dr. Matthias Schauen  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:21
Member (2007)
English to German
Does GBK make sense business-wise? Dec 3, 2008

My personal feedback: While I like sharing my opinion with colleagues in need of help via the old KudoZ system, I am reluctant to make my expert knowledge - which I consider one of my unique selling points - freely available to customers and competition. I have started an extra thread on this, becau... See more
My personal feedback: While I like sharing my opinion with colleagues in need of help via the old KudoZ system, I am reluctant to make my expert knowledge - which I consider one of my unique selling points - freely available to customers and competition. I have started an extra thread on this, because this might be off-topic here:
http://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/122210-public_glossaries:_why_should_we_participate.html

[Edited at 2008-12-03 12:42 GMT]
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Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 11:21
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER
To share or not to share? Dec 3, 2008

Dr. Matthias Schauen wrote:

My personal feedback: While I like sharing my opinion with colleagues in need of help via the old KudoZ system, I am reluctant to make my expert knowledge - what I consider one of my unique selling points - freely available to customers and competition.



All of the great things available at ProZ.com can only exist because of our worldwide community of professionals who choose to cooperate for mutual benefit, but of course this is a personal choice.

Participation in the GBK program is likely to provide opportunities for networking and for showing and sharing expertise. Whether or not this outweighs the disadvantage of helping potential competitors is for each user to decide.

Regards,
Enrique


 
Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 11:21
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER
Two sentences pasted as one Dec 4, 2008

Enrique wrote:

Mirra_ wrote:

Dear Enrique,

I saw it happen in more than one GBK. Like this one:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_italian/forestry_wood_timber/2963920-understory.html

As you can see there are only two example sentences (instead of three) and the first of them has got no link. Also, there is no explanation.

So it seems to be possible to jump some steps, or, part of them...



On the other hand, the example without a link is not in line with the required information, and it should not have been allowed by the system. We will investigate this.


I had a closer look at this question and found that two sentences belonging to the same text in the same source document were pasted in the box corresponding to one. Both sentences have the same link in common. In short, the answerer pasted too much in the box but the control worked properly (a link related to that content).

Regards,
Enrique


 
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