| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | 3rd person singular versus 1st person singular Thread poster: Mila Bilenka
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Mila Bilenka 
Canada
Local time: 02:27
English to Russian
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TOPIC STARTER | Stubborn versus comfortable? | Jul 19, 2008 |
Hi Alexandra,
We seem to have 2 dilemmas here: 1/ To educate or not to educate 2/ To conform or not to conform.
It is absolutely clear now that we should educate. But what if the English speaking party agrees with you, but keeps using “he/she” when addressing the non-English party?
Well, we either have to be “stubborn” or… make our assingment go smooth, so we start using “I” or “he/she” depending on non-English party’s preferences, thin... See more Hi Alexandra,
We seem to have 2 dilemmas here: 1/ To educate or not to educate 2/ To conform or not to conform.
It is absolutely clear now that we should educate. But what if the English speaking party agrees with you, but keeps using “he/she” when addressing the non-English party?
Well, we either have to be “stubborn” or… make our assingment go smooth, so we start using “I” or “he/she” depending on non-English party’s preferences, thinking “no harm in that both parties feel comfortable and communication goes smoothly”… ▲ Collapse
| | | | | stubbon vs. comfortable, indeed! | Jul 19, 2008 |
Hello, Mila,
That's the best way to pose the question. Of course, I still don't have the final answer!
This is what I do: if the doctor persists to say: "How is he feeling today?" (which happens in 99.9% of the cases), I interpret as if the question had been asked in the second person (it would be very awkward to do otherwise), and then proceed to interpret the answer using the first person.
Maybe ... See more Hello, Mila,
That's the best way to pose the question. Of course, I still don't have the final answer!
This is what I do: if the doctor persists to say: "How is he feeling today?" (which happens in 99.9% of the cases), I interpret as if the question had been asked in the second person (it would be very awkward to do otherwise), and then proceed to interpret the answer using the first person.
Maybe it's a habit with doctors, a habit that is hard to change, no matter how eloquent I may be in my attempt to "educate". ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mila Bilenka
Canada
Local time: 02:27
English to Russian
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TOPIC STARTER | Just an idea | Jul 20, 2008 |
Hi Alexandra, hi everyone,
Here’s one of many possible approaches:
We, interpreters, are “orchestra conductors”: the audience do not “see us”, but they hear the orchestra playing by our conductor’s baton. We have 2 ways here: playing by the book, or improvising/being flexible. Which approach is right and which is wrong? As always, there is no right and wrong. It’s up to us, the parties, the situation, the environment, you name it.
Pushing to... See more Hi Alexandra, hi everyone,
Here’s one of many possible approaches:
We, interpreters, are “orchestra conductors”: the audience do not “see us”, but they hear the orchestra playing by our conductor’s baton. We have 2 ways here: playing by the book, or improvising/being flexible. Which approach is right and which is wrong? As always, there is no right and wrong. It’s up to us, the parties, the situation, the environment, you name it.
Pushing to educate the parties or getting emotional over their stubbornness is not going to enhance the performance of our small orchestra. We are there for one and the only reason: to facilitate the communication, or rather to make it happen. We are supposed to be “invisible”. So if one of them persists, well… let it be.
Does it make sense to you? (Of course, this is not my final answer, just an idea) ▲ Collapse
| | | | | In medical settings, it does make sense | Jul 25, 2008 |
I still wish doctors would understand the saying "how is he feeling" does not exactly help communicating, but you are right - it doesn't pay to get emotional over it.
But in a legal setting, such as a deposition, we are required to play by the book. It is very formal, and rules have to be respected there. I don't have the problem with the attorneys - they know the rules well; but the deponent (non-English speaking party) would frequently refer to the attorney as "he", which presen... See more I still wish doctors would understand the saying "how is he feeling" does not exactly help communicating, but you are right - it doesn't pay to get emotional over it.
But in a legal setting, such as a deposition, we are required to play by the book. It is very formal, and rules have to be respected there. I don't have the problem with the attorneys - they know the rules well; but the deponent (non-English speaking party) would frequently refer to the attorney as "he", which presents a special challenge to the interpreter. But that is a different issue. Maybe we should talk about it in the future. ▲ Collapse
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hakim_sm
Sweden
Local time: 08:27
Swedish to Arabic
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i admet that also her in sweden is a big interpreting problem but not every doctors or any other administrations employee do that misstake.
| | | | | Third person, the patient | Sep 6, 2008 |
I work in a Children's Hospital. When the provider uses the third person all the time is really confusing. Nobody knows if they are talking to the parent or to the child... or asking a question about the child. UF!
| | | | | So, how do you handle it? | Sep 6, 2008 |
Javier Wasserzug wrote:
I work in a Children's Hospital. When the provider uses the third person all the time is really confusing. Nobody knows if they are talking to the parent or to the child... or asking a question about the child. UF!
I can imagine... Bad as it is when doctor asks "how old is he", it must be even worse when there is a patient and a patient's parent.
May I ask you, Javier: how do you handle the situation? Do you just grim and bear it? Or do you try to educate the doctors? If yes, have you ever been successful in educating them?
On the positive side, let me tell you my recent experience. During my last medical interpretation, the doctor actually talked to the patient in second person. I didn't even have to ask him to do this.
As the appointment came to the end, I thanked the doctor for talking to the patient directly. He looked at me and said: "But of course! I talk to the patients, not about them".
May there be more doctors like this one...
| | | | | Third person, the patient and their parents | Sep 20, 2008 |
I ask the provider "please would address her (usually the mother) in first person? It is confusing if you use the third person."
This is obvious and they just forget, I know they learn that in Med and Nursing Schools and the issue is mentioned during every orientation for the new residents and nurses.
Now, the situation in quite different for the parents. In this case, I have to use my skills. They are usually persons with very low education and the whole situation (having a child ... See more I ask the provider "please would address her (usually the mother) in first person? It is confusing if you use the third person."
This is obvious and they just forget, I know they learn that in Med and Nursing Schools and the issue is mentioned during every orientation for the new residents and nurses.
Now, the situation in quite different for the parents. In this case, I have to use my skills. They are usually persons with very low education and the whole situation (having a child in the hospital and / or talking to doctors, understanding medical stuff) is sometimes too much. So, I try to accommodate to them.
[Edited at 2008-09-20 23:49] ▲ Collapse
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| Thank you, Javier. | Sep 21, 2008 |
I didn't know that I know they learn that in Med and Nursing Schools, and, judging by their behavior, wouldn't even suspect they do!
Maybe I should resume my attempts to "educate" the doctors, discouraging as it has been in the past...
| | | | | 1st/3rd and a visual language | Sep 26, 2008 |
Interesting discussion of the use of first/third person. As a visual/spoken language interpreter, I was trained to use first person. It seems to work most of the time - owing to similar glitched as have been discussed. Often, for me, placing myself out of direct eye contact of the consumer of the spoken language forces that person to look elsewhere for eye contact and sumbliminally facilitates the use of 1st person. I am willing to educate, too, however, I don't want the communication to foc... See more Interesting discussion of the use of first/third person. As a visual/spoken language interpreter, I was trained to use first person. It seems to work most of the time - owing to similar glitched as have been discussed. Often, for me, placing myself out of direct eye contact of the consumer of the spoken language forces that person to look elsewhere for eye contact and sumbliminally facilitates the use of 1st person. I am willing to educate, too, however, I don't want the communication to focus on the process so much as the product. Use of 3rd person can cause misinterpretation because the pronoun antecedents are not clear. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Agnieszka Hayward (X)
Poland
Local time: 08:27
German to Polish
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| Doctors and others :-) | Oct 10, 2008 |
Alexandra Goldburt wrote:
Maybe it's a habit with doctors, a habit that is hard to change, no matter how eloquent I may be in my attempt to "educate".
Hi!
What an interesting topic!
I've never actually interpreted in a doctor-patient situation, but...
I've experienced the following situation as a patient:
Some (usually in their 50s or so) doctors here in Poland would address the patient in third person! And this is Polish monolingual! Fortunately, this bizzare habit of theirs is dying out, as it is highly annoying, and (at least in Polish) VERY impolite. When I was first faced with this, I simply turned around and asked the doctor whom they were talking about, as I couldn't see anybody else in the surgery. Works everytime!
As for business negotiations, I've seen (well, heard) a lot of 3rd person where there were none 'Tell him, we don't agree'. Or, worse still: 'You will understand that, you're Polish, explain (sic!!!) to him, that this is not how we do things here'. Aaaaaargh!
And... my number one of all times (ok, so far)...
Conference room. One party at one side of a long table, the other opposite. Client insists I sit with them, and wants me to be on their far left, next to their boss, instead of the other end of the table, where everyone could see and hear me (no mic, as it was a relatively small group), and from where I could see everyone as well as the presentation shown.
I was in no position to argue (not a very flexible client, I’m afraid, knows everything better), even though it was highly uncomfortable for me (could not look at the presentation on the wall to my left and talk to the group on my right at the same time). Presentation was all numbers, graphs, etc.
So, I’m not really happy, but the show must go on. Suddenly, still during the guests’ presentation, I detect some whisper in my client’s group, followed by a wave of giggle. I only caught something in the way of ‘they have no idea’ and ‘do they really expect to pull it off here?!’.
The foreign guests grin politely with huge question marks on their faces. This is when client tells me: ‘You don’t have to interpret this. It was a private conversation.’
What did I do? I said: ‘Please excuse us, this was a private conversation’. Can you guess how I felt?...
May I ask you, dear colleagues, what would YOU have done? Any words of inspiration welcome.
OK, apart from hints to grab something heavy and let off steam by repositioning my client's nose.
Needless to say, situations like this put me off consecutive interpreting for good. I now only do it for a small number of clients whom I know well.
Huge thanks to whoever introduced the idea of simultaneous interpreting in a booth to the world! I love my job and I want it to love me
Once again, thanks for this great topic, I’ve enjoyed reading all the posts.
And... hats off to everyone who, in their everyday work, educate the 3rd-person lovers !
Regards to all,
Agnieszka
[Edited at 2008-10-10 22:06]
| | | | | What I would have done... | Oct 15, 2008 |
Hello, Agnieszka,
I honestly don't know what I would have done in a situation you've described. Uncomfortable indeed!
I have done business negotiation interpreting a few times, and so far, my experience has been positive. I'm sorry it has not been so for you.
I mostly interpret for legal proceedings, and there the rules are clear: I'm obligated to interpret everything that has been said, including the conversation between an attorney and her client. ... See more Hello, Agnieszka,
I honestly don't know what I would have done in a situation you've described. Uncomfortable indeed!
I have done business negotiation interpreting a few times, and so far, my experience has been positive. I'm sorry it has not been so for you.
I mostly interpret for legal proceedings, and there the rules are clear: I'm obligated to interpret everything that has been said, including the conversation between an attorney and her client. If the attorney want to have a private conversation with a client, she would request to go off the record. Attorneys know the rules, so I rarely, if ever, have problems.
I'm not sure the rules apply to business negotiation, though. But, since what was said was a whisper and you couldn't hear it, just say honestly that you did not hear it. I'm sure that the embarrassment is on the people who behaved that way (which was very rude), and not on you.
I hope it helps. ▲ Collapse
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MMFORREST
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:27
Romanian to English
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| It is a bit more awkward on the phone. | Oct 20, 2008 |
Alexandra Goldburt wrote:
Hello, Mila,
That's the best way to pose the question. Of course, I still don't have the final answer!
This is what I do: if the doctor persists to say: "How is he feeling today?" (which happens in 99.9% of the cases), I interpret as if the question had been asked in the second person (it would be very awkward to do otherwise), and then proceed to interpret the answer using the first person.
Maybe it's a habit with doctors, a habit that is hard to change, no matter how eloquent I may be in my attempt to "educate".
Well, it does not happen only with medical staff, it's the same in the tax office, but, just like you, I ignore the 3rd person.
The medical staff using interpreters have been given training and most know why I speak in the 1st person, so I do not bother to explain to them why I speak in the 1st person. Sometimes some of them go along and start using the 1st person, as I do but not necessarily consistently.
Sometimes the NHS person speaks to me first and he/she uses the 3rd person : “Can you ask him/her when the pain started? I’ll pass the patient now.” and then he/she passes the receiver to the patient. I use the 1st person even both the interlocutors use the 3rd person. I only explain to the patient that I shall be speaking as I were the doctor/nurse. They seem to understand but then they say: I’ll pass you the doctor now”. Sometimes I have to ask: “Can you put the doctor back on?” when my conational can’t stop talking, giving a lot of unnecessary details and involving me in the case with questions like: “Do you know what I mean? You should understand, you are one of ours. I don’t know their language.” It happened to me the other day and I relayed everything, just as a professional interpreter does, to the amusement of the doctor!!!!
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I think nobody should ask you to speak in the third person. If somebody was really pushing me to do so, I would probably terminate the interpretation. When I interpret, I usually speak in the first person, but not always - especially when I need to summarise in a couple of sentences something that was the person trying to explain for five minutes. As for the other parties, they sometimes automatically speak in the first person, and if they do not, I let them speak in the third person, as I have... See more I think nobody should ask you to speak in the third person. If somebody was really pushing me to do so, I would probably terminate the interpretation. When I interpret, I usually speak in the first person, but not always - especially when I need to summarise in a couple of sentences something that was the person trying to explain for five minutes. As for the other parties, they sometimes automatically speak in the first person, and if they do not, I let them speak in the third person, as I have come to the concusion that all that hassle of explaining that they can talk in the first person makes it just more complicated. The thing is that I mainly work as a telephone interpreter, and the interpretations are relatively short - ten minutes on avarage. If I knew that I was going to interpret for somebody for the whole week, then I would make the effort to educate him. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Permission for study | Feb 11, 2010 |
Hey colleagues! I am a sign language interpreter, from Brazil, and my doctoral thesis is about this topic: 3rd person singular versus 1st person singular, so...I would like to ask your permission to reproduce your comments in this forum (with nicknames), translated into Brazilian Portuguese. Your comments will reinforce the idea that this is not only a dilema of sign language interpreters, but from ALL interpreters, it doesn`t matter if their work languages are vocal (spoken) ou signed.
P... See more Hey colleagues! I am a sign language interpreter, from Brazil, and my doctoral thesis is about this topic: 3rd person singular versus 1st person singular, so...I would like to ask your permission to reproduce your comments in this forum (with nicknames), translated into Brazilian Portuguese. Your comments will reinforce the idea that this is not only a dilema of sign language interpreters, but from ALL interpreters, it doesn`t matter if their work languages are vocal (spoken) ou signed.
Please, anyone who wants to give authorization for that mail me in private.
Thank you very much!
Cristina ▲ Collapse
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