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请教专利翻译应该注意的问题
Thread poster: chance (X)
nigerose
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格式完全不对 Jun 10, 2010

Ysunoz wrote:

多谢ysun前辈。那个统计是以前想专利的时候,在哪里看到的。具体什么不记得了,但是就这么一句给印象深刻的留下来了。
跑题下,我开始在这里申请时,按自己名字来,是和前辈一样的呢。可是即使大写Y开头也没通过,只好多加了2个字母。今天再细看,你的都是小写啊。看来一样就不行的啊。

手边有这个,先请教了。化学的我回头也贴来。终于有可以好好学习的机会了:)多谢哈!

Mechanical
Detailed Statement

1. Invention’s name
Endoscope Treatment Tool

2. Invention’s claim scope
An endoscope treatment tool consisting of a high frequency radio wave knife, is inserted into the channel of the endoscope. A high frequency radio wave is sent through the operation wire to reach the tip of the knife for ablation of the affected tissue. This type of operational wire tip functions by a plasma process to form the knife. This is the characteristic of this endoscope treatment tool.

3. Detailed description of the invention
[Field of the invention]
This endoscope treatment tool, more specifically, is used as a high frequency radio wave cutting knife. The high frequency radio wave knife is inserted in the channel of the endoscope, and uses high frequency radio waves to make incisions inside the body cavity.

[Background of the invention]
It is well known that one of the endoscope treatment tool is this high frequency radio wave cutting knife which is inserted with flexible movement within the channel (5), that is itself inside the endoscopes’(1) hand manipulators(2), the piece that is inserted into the body cavity(3), and the tip (4), as shown in figure 4. This high frequency radio wave knife (7) is fixed to the tip of the operational wire (6) (refer to figure 5). The operational wire is inserted into a tube and can move inside the curvature of the tube (12) that is inserted into the channel (5). Furthermore, in figure 4, #8 is the eye piece, 9 is the finger hanging ring, 10 is the slider. The finger hanging ring (9) and slider (10), as above described, are the component of the hands manipulator when the high frequency radio knife (7) used by the hands. This hands manipulator has electrode terminal, which send high frequency radio wave to wire (6) as above described. Traditionally, this type of high frequency radio wave knifes’ (7) base and operation wires’ (6) tip are inserted into connection vibes’ (11) two ends. After two parts to be connected, by using connection vibes’ (11) low affix injection hole (11a), low affix process can make two parts connected. Furthermore, in figure 5, #12 is curvature cube that has operation wire (6) inserted through. #13 is fixed on the tip of curvature cube (12).。。。。



格式完全不对,感觉原文问题大大的有。(发明人)别省钱了,找个专利代理人撰写好了再找翻译。


 
ysun
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专利结构 Jun 10, 2010

如前述那篇化学专利所示,通常一篇专利的结构如下:

TITLE

FIELD OF THE INVENTION

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE FIGURES

DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION (or DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE PREFERRED EMBODIMENTS)

EXAMPLES

CLAIMS

ABSTRACT
---------------------------------------------------------
FIELD O
... See more
如前述那篇化学专利所示,通常一篇专利的结构如下:

TITLE

FIELD OF THE INVENTION

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE FIGURES

DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION (or DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE PREFERRED EMBODIMENTS)

EXAMPLES

CLAIMS

ABSTRACT
---------------------------------------------------------
FIELD OF THE INVENTION 通常都以下列措词开始:

This invention relates to …
This invention is directed to …

e.g., FUSED AZABICYCLIC PYRIDINES
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/images4/PCT-PAGES/2010/032010/10008777/10008777.pdf
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nigerose
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[Background of the invention] Jun 10, 2010

[Background of the invention]
[Background of the invention]
It is well known that one of the endoscope treatment tool is this high frequency radio wave cutting knife which is inserted with flexible movement within the channel (5), that is itself inside the endoscopes’(1) hand manipulators(2), the piece that is inserted into the body cavity(3), and the tip (4), as shown in figure 4. This high frequency radio wave knife (7) is fixed to the tip of the operational wire (6) (refer to fi
... See more
[Background of the invention]
[Background of the invention]
It is well known that one of the endoscope treatment tool is this high frequency radio wave cutting knife which is inserted with flexible movement within the channel (5), that is itself inside the endoscopes’(1) hand manipulators(2), the piece that is inserted into the body cavity(3), and the tip (4), as shown in figure 4. This high frequency radio wave knife (7) is fixed to the tip of the operational wire (6) (refer to figure 5). The operational wire is inserted into a tube and can move inside the curvature of the tube (12) that is inserted into the channel (5). Furthermore, in figure 4, #8 is the eye piece, 9 is the finger hanging ring, 10 is the slider. The finger hanging ring (9) and slider (10), as above described, are the component of the hands manipulator when the high frequency radio knife (7) used by the hands. This hands manipulator has electrode terminal, which send high frequency radio wave to wire (6) as above described. Traditionally, this type of high frequency radio wave knifes’ (7) base and operation wires’ (6) tip are inserted into connection vibes’ (11) two ends. After two parts to be connected, by using connection vibes’ (11) low affix injection hole (11a), low affix process can make two parts connected. Furthermore, in figure 5, #12 is curvature cube that has operation wire (6) inserted through. #13 is fixed on the tip of curvature cube (12).。。。。


哪有[Background of the invention]对本发明的技术方案进行具体描述的。
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ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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原文的问题与试译者无关 Jun 10, 2010

这份试卷也许是翻译社在某篇专利的基础上改编的。原文的问题与试译者无关。试译者的任务只是答卷。我看,还是请擅长做医疗器械翻译的同仁就译文发表具体意见吧。

 
Ysunoz
Ysunoz
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谢拉!学习了。 Jun 10, 2010

2位各抒己见,我已经受益不少了。

ysun头1句话的翻译,很有让我体会到“专利翻译,哦,原来如此”的感觉。回头要把传真找出来,很有可能你的翻译更对证日文原文的呢。多谢你给的网页,回头要好好去学习下。不管几年后还兼不兼职翻译,有没有最终学成专利翻译,这个好好学习下还是挺有兴趣的。难得有这么个和内行聊的机会:)

至于日文原文谁写�
... See more
2位各抒己见,我已经受益不少了。

ysun头1句话的翻译,很有让我体会到“专利翻译,哦,原来如此”的感觉。回头要把传真找出来,很有可能你的翻译更对证日文原文的呢。多谢你给的网页,回头要好好去学习下。不管几年后还兼不兼职翻译,有没有最终学成专利翻译,这个好好学习下还是挺有兴趣的。难得有这么个和内行聊的机会:)

至于日文原文谁写的,怎么来的,我也不知道,也没有经验可以做判断。记得以前在这里看到个专利局退休的老美,专门在日本给他们翻译的,讲,日本人亏在就按照他们的思维写,申请,根本不符合美国的行情,所以往往过不了审查。

翻译对我来说,其实一直是兼职。记得以前一起留学的里面,有位外交大学毕业的,她是专门给国家领导开会做同声译的,据说。
当时我们真是仰慕呀,想想中英文2边的捣腾?自己只是因为所在环境,工作里顺道总是被给找来做翻译,和苏州的裁缝做方言日语译,和印度商人做印英日语讨价还价。就是因为有趣。只领1份工资,所以只当自己是业余。和前面那位师姐的专业是天地之差的。
来美国,都是因为日本人各个在家过的舒服,不愿意给派这里来工作。各个都推说不会英文,所以我才来的。后来天天以孩子为中心的生活,才回头想起来,可以在家干的兼职,要回头去做翻译。本来想要干就象样的好好干,要有专有精的。不想今天干动明天干西的,很想有自己的定业。不过现在看来翻译内在也很深,不是那么容易的。看来还是等孩子大了,回去做我的公司8到5的小本职的为妙。

恩,人生道路上7拐8转呀。还是多谢各位的各抒己见了!
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Ysunoz
Ysunoz
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把化学也翻了出来:) Jun 10, 2010

先谢过老孙,和各位抒己见的达人们!

Chemical
Detailed Statement

1. Invention’s name
Photosensitive components

2. Invention’s claim scopes
(1)
(A) General Formula for thioxanthenyl group
[In the formula, Z1 and Z2 each represent an independent benzo ring or naphtho ring, and at least one of them contains a substitute with a heteroatom.]
(B) Polymerizable compound and,
(C) Photosensitive compon
... See more
先谢过老孙,和各位抒己见的达人们!

Chemical
Detailed Statement

1. Invention’s name
Photosensitive components

2. Invention’s claim scopes
(1)
(A) General Formula for thioxanthenyl group
[In the formula, Z1 and Z2 each represent an independent benzo ring or naphtho ring, and at least one of them contains a substitute with a heteroatom.]
(B) Polymerizable compound and,
(C) Photosensitive components, in visible light range, contains sensitive photopolymerization start reagent.
(2) Photosensitive components are labeled as amino group (D) described in claim (1).
(3) According to claim (1) and (2), photosensitive components are used to form a photosensitive layer. On this layer a latent image will be formed after exposing an image to it using visible light. The latent image can be revealed after exposure to UV light. This is the characteristic of photopolymerizable image form method.

3. Detailed description of the invention
[Field of the invention]
This invention relates to a useful photosensitive component for the printing plate material, specifically, for photosensitive components that are highly sensitive.
[Background of the invention]
Traditionally, it is common to expose a photosensitive resin component under UV light. In recent years, digital recording technology has been advanced due to laser light usage. The method of exposure using visual light, which includes laser light, is more widely used than before.
For example, argon laser uses around 500nm visual light to form images onto a photosensitive resin film. Compared to UV light exposure, energy from visible light exposure is lower, so this makes the development for higher sensitive photosensitive resin more favorable.

[Edited at 2010-06-11 13:52 GMT]
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ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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English to Chinese
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Field of the invention Jun 11, 2010

Ysunoz wrote:

[Field of the invention]
This invention relates to a useful photosensitive component for the printing plate material, specifically, for photosensitive components that are highly sensitive.

Ysunoz,

我正忙于下星期一前必须交出的一篇五万字医药专利,故先稍微修改一下 Field of the invention,供你参考:
Field of the invention
This invention relates to a photosensitive component useful for making a printing plate material, and more specifically, to a highly sensitive photosensitive component.

注:如果根据原文 "printing plate material” 是指印刷电路板,那就应改为 printed circuit board material。

既然 This invention relates to a photosensitive component,通常 Claims 的第一条就应该是 a photosensitive component。所以,那个 "Invention’s claim scopes",也就是 Claims,看起来很不规范,某些部分很费解。当然,那还是属于原文的问题。关于这点,以后我谈 Claims 时再说。


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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Local time: 11:39
English to Chinese
+ ...
CLAIMS Jun 11, 2010

Ysunoz wrote:

2. Invention’s claim scopes
(1)
(A) General Formula for thioxanthenyl group
[In the formula, Z1 and Z2 each represent an independent benzo ring or naphtho ring, and at least one of them contains a substitute with a heteroatom.]
(B) Polymerizable compound and,
(C) Photosensitive components, in visible light range, contains sensitive photopolymerization start reagent.
(2) Photosensitive components are labeled as amino group (D) described in claim (1).
(3) According to claim (1) and (2), photosensitive components are used to form a photosensitive layer. On this layer a latent image will be formed after exposing an image to it using visible light. The latent image can be revealed after exposure to UV light. This is the characteristic of photopolymerizable image form method.
Edited at 2010-06-11 13:52 GMT]

这部分其实就是CLAIMS,其开头部分通常如下:
CLAIMS (标题)

What is claimed is:
或者
We claim:
---------------------------------
至于 Claim (1),无论是 “general formula” 还是 “thioxanthenyl group”(噻吨基),通常都不会是专利权要求的对象。如前帖所述,CLAIMS 的第一条应该就是 a photosensitive component。或者,应该是一种与它有关的物质或组合物。据我所知,通常用于制造感光材料的是噻吨酮(thioxanthenone)。由于无法与原文对照,不知 Claim (1)中的(A)、(B)、(C)之间是什么关系?是不是一种组合物的三种成分?如果是,那么Claim (1) 可能就是这个样子:

1. A chemical composition comprising the following ingredients:

(A) a compound of the thioxanthenone family having a general formula

(a figure of the formula),

wherein Z1 and Z2 each represents an independent benzene ring or naphthalene ring and at least one of them has a heteroatom-containing substituent;

(B) a polymerizable compound; and

(C) a photosensitive component for use under the light in a visible light range, containing an initiator for initiating sensitive photopolymerization.

注意,无论 Claim 1 有多长,它并非是一个句子,而是一个 phrase。它与前面的 What is claimed is 一起才构成一个句子。即:What is claimed is a chemical composition.

----------------------------------
Claim (2) doesn’t make sense. 能否用中文解释一下它的意思?
(2) (Photosensitive components are labeled as amino group)

(D) as described in claim (1).

Claims 2 与 Claim 1 是并列的,为什么又出来一个 (D)?

关于Claim (3) 部分,以后有空时再谈。由于无法对照日文原文,我的以上意见肯定有局限,甚至有误。但希望你在对照原文之下,仍然能有所启发。谢谢!


 
ysun
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补充一点 Jun 12, 2010

Ysunoz wrote:

[Field of the invention]
This invention relates to a useful photosensitive component for the printing plate material, specifically, for photosensitive components that are highly sensitive.

Ysunoz,

你翻译的这一段也不错。但 Field of the invention 这部分要求简单扼要,能用一个复合句解决问题的就尽量不要分为几个独立句,能用一个简单句的就尽量不要用复合句。所以,我把你那个带定语从句的 "photosensitive components that are highly sensitive” 改为 "a highly sensitive photosensitive component"。另外,我把你的 "a useful photosensitive component for” 改为 "a photosensitive component useful for”,那是因为在许多专利的 Field of the invention 部分,常用的是下面这个句型:

This invention relates to (something) useful for (in) …, and more specifically, (relates) to (something) …

不知你的看法如何?

[Edited at 2010-06-13 06:58 GMT]


 
Ysunoz
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天, Jun 13, 2010

幸而是老孙热心给指导。这个要是付学费,我是不要破产的?又是周末,又是你交大稿前:)真谢谢了!

现在记得是,原文那个claim1后是图,然后才是claim2的。具体内容得我回头去看看。

看了你最后1句的总结,很经验累积的言之有理呀。应该出本书,来总结下全面的怎样做化学专利翻译。日本人就有本针对英文专利翻译的书的。我们也该从ProZ的网页上发展出去,发扬宏大:0 到时,即使我不做翻译了,也一定去买本来留做人生路上的一段回忆。


 
Renquan Yang
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写专利,更难 Jun 13, 2010

翻译专利不容易,而写好专利,则更难。

 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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不必客气 Jun 15, 2010

Ysunoz wrote:

幸而是老孙热心给指导。这个要是付学费,我是不要破产的?又是周末,又是你交大稿前:)真谢谢了!

现在记得是,原文那个claim1后是图,然后才是claim2的。具体内容得我回头去看看。

看了你最后1句的总结,很经验累积的言之有理呀。应该出本书,来总结下全面的怎样做化学专利翻译。日本人就有本针对英文专利翻译的书的。我们也该从ProZ的网页上发展出去,发扬宏大:0 到时,即使我不做翻译了,也一定去买本来留做人生路上的一段回忆。

Ysunoz,

不必客气。我只是一孔之见。由于无法对照原文,所述意见只能供你参考。我也写不了什么书。国内出版过关于专利翻译的书。作者曾任国家专利局专利审查官,但据说书写的不怎么样,那还不如不写。

几年来,我翻译了200余篇英文专利,每篇少则一、两万字,多则十万。其中大部分是医药专利(其中很大篇幅涉及特殊有机化合物的结构与制法),是与化学博士 Bin Li 合作完成的(一人翻译,另一人审核)。英文专利翻得多了,对于英文专利的格式、惯用语就比较熟悉,再搞中译英就容易了,照猫画虎即可。如果你搞日译英或中译英,可根据专利内容到美国专利局或WIPO网站搜索类似专利作为参考。另外,隔行如隔山,你应根据你的擅长选择项目范围,不能什么专业的专利都翻。这样才能事半功倍,而不会事倍功半。

[Edited at 2010-06-15 18:19 GMT]


 
Jing LI (X)
Jing LI (X)
China
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专利局的很多审查员自己的水平也不到家的 Jun 20, 2010

专利局的很多审查员自己的水平也不到家,常常只是新招进去某几个领域的高材生罢了,很多都欠经验的;
所以做专代的很多都要循循善诱,如果参考公开文本还是要慎重,最好挑好的代理人去看认真处理过的文本。
Hope that helps.

国内的翻译质量都蛮可怕的,如果是好的律所大概还okay,有的大所也是乱翻的;
好在实审申请周期长,反正可以以后慢慢修改关键点。

ysun先生推荐的wipo和uspto之外还可以看看欧洲专利局的公开文本,那个的检索系统很发达。

[Edited at 2010-06-20 18:29 GMT]


 
allankliu
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其实这是两个问题 Sep 24, 2010

我知道大家在翻译专利的时候,潜意识里总是希望专利不要被驳回。其实这是专利代理的事情,如果雇主找了专利翻译而不找专利代理就递上去,一定是被打回来了。我之前自己申请过一些专利,就被打回来要求补正,最后不得不放弃补正,要补正的地方太多了,基本上就是重写了。

所以,翻译是翻译,专利代理是专利代理。关键是不要翻译地连专利代理也看不懂,就真的完蛋了。


 
Renquan Yang
Renquan Yang  Identity Verified
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专利翻译 Jan 14, 2011

专利翻译,是个技术活儿,反正翻译的任务是忠实转换原文,即便原文的逻辑上存在错误,翻译也只能将错就错,最多是用批注模式指出存疑的地方而已。专利最终收权与否,与专利译员没啥关系,前提是专利译员已经忠实转换了原文,而不是错误翻译。
专利翻译,说到底,还就是做裤子的命,尽管我目前仍在做裤子。


 
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