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Off topic: 2006赛事集锦 (2006 World Cup)
Thread poster: Chinoise
ysun
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费厄泼赖? Jul 17, 2006

Last Hermit wrote:
可你事后仍不知错,只向小童道歉,而不向广大球迷尤其是该意大利球员道歉?


我想问一下,迄今为止,Materazzi有没有像一个男人那样站出来,如实地公开承认他当时到底说了些什么?有没有因此向Zidane和他的家人道歉?如果没有,那么凭什么Zidane要向Materazzi道歉?据报道,Zidane的母亲说,应该把Materazzi变成太监,可见Materazzi当时的话是多么卑鄙无耻、恶毒肮脏了!

Zidane不但已经向儿童道歉,而且还已经向教练和全体球队队员,以及众多的球迷道歉。不过他也已经说得很清楚,为什么不能向Materazzi道歉。

Zidane已在球场被裁判当场罚下场了。裁判的最高权限也就是如此了,你还想怎么罚?有关机构正在调查此事,应会作出合理的判断和决定。如果Materazzi觉得这还不解气,那么他可以上法院告Zidane。但是,这样一来,他在法庭上就必须在宣誓后如实供出他到底是如何侮辱Zidane的。届时如果他还敢撒谎,那么法律对他同样将是无情的。须知,专家们采用各种常规的和高科技手段正在研究他当时到底说了些什么,想赖是赖不掉的!想当初,美国某总统面临被弹劾和坐牢的危机,主要就是因为在宣誓后还撒谎。正如你所说,“这是民主社会之所以为民主,公正社会之所以为公正的本义所在”。不知法国在这方面的法律是否与美国有所不同?


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
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关于这件事,我只知道Materazzi受到FIFA听证,出来时表情严肃,未作任何评论 Jul 18, 2006

FIFA表示让意大利球协处理。

至此为止,我觉得都是正常程序。如果不是这次的特殊情况,一般场上裁判处理撞人者也就算了。这次有公众的舆论,Zidane也公开提出了问题,所以也要听证处理Materazzi。从这个意义上讲,是开了个好头,分析事情的原委,可以健全球场纪律。

由于赛场时间限制,及其它种种原因,FIFA规定赛场上以主裁判当场裁判决定为主,录像不能作为证据。所以有些时候裁判没看到的情况下,不一定完全公道。因为是实行统一规定,大家也无怨言。比如法国对南韩那场,进了一球,裁判没看见,就没算分,也没说什么。

这次撞人主裁判没看到,是第4裁判(辅助)从他旁边的录像上看到后,通知主裁判后才出示的红牌。这样作当然是对的,但是也要由此改变FIFA的规定,具体规定在哪些条件下可以以录像为准,哪些不能以录像为准,对所有比赛采取一致规定才公道。当然即便FIFA决定改变录像的使用规定,也要等下次世界杯了。

[Edited at 2006-07-18 13:36]


 
pkchan
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公眾言論或會左右公正的調查 Jul 18, 2006

『球迷捧出的红牌大师 揭秘齐达内性格中的劣根性

齐达内头撞对手得到红牌 一代大师就这样谢幕

  怎么理解齐达内用头去撞马特拉齐胸口的行为?实际上,齐达内和马特拉齐两人之间都有口角,甚至齐达内说的话更多一些。而比较搞笑的事情是,当意大利球员们向边裁抗议时,齐达内已经准备摘下队长袖标,他已经做了吃红牌的准备。

  虽然多梅内克在齐达内被红牌罚下场时,依然用掌声鼓励这位球员,但是谁都知道,用这种方式告别这一届近乎完美的世界杯,对于齐达内来说,没有什么比这更糟糕的了,而且,球队还失去了冠军,号称大师的齐达内以职业生涯的第13张红牌结束。』..... 錄自http://sports.enorth.com.cn/system/2006/07/10/001352246.shtml

似乎部份傳媒已有了判斷,對調查不無影響,在七月二十日,國際足協會進行閉門調查會,結果會在會後公佈。


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
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1.马特拉齐先拉了Zidane的T-Shirt Jul 18, 2006

2. Zidane说:你想要我的T-Shirt,赛后可以给你。
3. 马特拉齐就开始说脏话,并且重复。

问题不在说没说,而在说什么。如果这个都不懂,也要打所谓的抱不平,才叫好笑!Zidane 是在裁判出示红牌后才摘下袖标,没有看到的话,最好别瞎传话。当然他知道自己的举动会受到什么样的惩罚,所以敢做敢当。

我不明白为什么还会有人替马特拉齐打抱不平?如�
... See more
2. Zidane说:你想要我的T-Shirt,赛后可以给你。
3. 马特拉齐就开始说脏话,并且重复。

问题不在说没说,而在说什么。如果这个都不懂,也要打所谓的抱不平,才叫好笑!Zidane 是在裁判出示红牌后才摘下袖标,没有看到的话,最好别瞎传话。当然他知道自己的举动会受到什么样的惩罚,所以敢做敢当。

我不明白为什么还会有人替马特拉齐打抱不平?如果不是有公众舆论,他根本就不会受到任何惩罚。我相信FIFA和广大公众还都有这个辨别能力。再继续狡辩让人觉得到了可笑的地步!

pkchan wrote:


  怎么理解齐达内用头去撞马特拉齐胸口的行为?实际上,齐达内和马特拉齐两人之间都有口角,甚至齐达内说的话更多一些。而比较搞笑的事情是,当意大利球员们向边裁抗议时,齐达内已经准备摘下队长袖标,他已经做了吃红牌的准备。

  
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pkchan
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非常同意 Jul 18, 2006

chance wrote:

2. Zidane说:你想要我的T-Shirt,赛后可以给你。
3. 马特拉齐就开始说脏话,并且重复。

问题不在说没说,而在说什么。如果这个都不懂,也要打所谓的抱不平,才叫好笑!Zidane 是在裁判出示红牌后才摘下袖标,没有看到的话,最好别瞎传话。当然他知道自己的举动会受到什么样的惩罚,所以敢做敢当。

我不明白为什么还会有人替马特拉齐打抱不平?如果不是有公众舆论,他根本就不会受到任何惩罚。我相信FIFA和广大公众还都有这个辨别能力。再继续狡辩让人觉得到了可笑的地步!

pkchan wrote:


  怎么理解齐达内用头去撞马特拉齐胸口的行为?实际上,齐达内和马特拉齐两人之间都有口角,甚至齐达内说的话更多一些。而比较搞笑的事情是,当意大利球员们向边裁抗议时,齐达内已经准备摘下队长袖标,他已经做了吃红牌的准备。

  

CHANCE大姐﹕
看國內的評論,多有偏見,只錄其一介紹,並非我說的,也不代表我的意見。Don't shoot the messenger!其實,我一直很欣賞你的說明,你我的看法距離不大,你在法國,比我有更多的直接感受,我在美國看不到的地方,給我啟發,十分感謝,是世界杯,大家聊起來,很珍貴,很榮幸,我也會珍惜這份情誼,有機會再與你談,冒犯之處,請諒。


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
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这是法广7月14日一篇关于Zidane的文章,恳切地分析了他的优缺点, Jul 18, 2006

也忠实地反映了大部分法国人对他的看法,文章紧凑,约5分30秒 :

http://francechinexpress.online.fr/france/Zidane_portrait14072006.asx

尤其值得一提的是他在名人光环下一直保持低调朴实,以及在电视台采访时平静地否定了意大利球员挑衅的种族色彩......也提到了他曾14次被红牌警告,其中12次被迫中途退出比赛......


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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被意大利媒体称为“肘击先生”的马特拉齐心狠手辣 Jul 18, 2006

http://img1.qq.com/2006/pics/864/864926.jpg

原图片说明:2006年4月4日,国际米兰在欧洲冠军杯1/4决赛中客场挑战维拉利尔。第69分钟马特拉齐在禁区内故意伸右手肘击索林,阿根廷人眉骨大量出血痛苦倒地,但主裁判没有任何表示。通过短暂治疗后,索林重新出场比赛。

[Edited at 2006-07-19 17:05]


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
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Wherestip, Jul 19, 2006

你老乡Lance昨天来环法自行车大赛支持他的老队友,但是第一天没敢出酒店,据说关于法国足球队他说了一句粗话,我查了一下可以理解为“笨蛋”。按他自己的解释是:如果法国队、法国人和媒体不高兴,说明他们不懂幽默。

今天看到的另一条消息说他“我毫不后悔所说的话,遗憾的是报道没有正确转播”,然后又补充说“我喜欢法国,我喜欢法国人,我喜欢这个国家的文化。”

我想他这话至少有60%是真的 我一直非常佩服Armstrong, 现在他的老队友Landis在环法大赛又看好。

[Edited at 2006-07-19 11:01]


 
wherestip
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Hi, Chance Jul 19, 2006

chance wrote:

...按他自己的解释是:如果法国队、法国人和媒体不高兴,说明他们不懂幽默。



I haven't been keeping up with the Tour de France, and haven't heard about Lance calling names.

There's a stereotype here in the U. S. about the French people's lack of humor, that they all love the U. S. comic Jerry Lewis. (Jerry Lewis is a comic from the old days and not many people find him funny anymore) But it is a good-humored ribbing, like non-offensive Polish jokes.

My guess that's what Lance's rumored name-calling could be


 
wherestip
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About humor... Jul 19, 2006

Chance, Here are two articles I found by googling. I think people from different cultures vary in their sense of humor. For example, what may seem funny to an American may be totally tasteless to someone in China. I see a lot of funny jokes(some off-color) but don't think they'd go over here too well ... See more
Chance, Here are two articles I found by googling. I think people from different cultures vary in their sense of humor. For example, what may seem funny to an American may be totally tasteless to someone in China. I see a lot of funny jokes(some off-color) but don't think they'd go over here too well

http://theresalduncan.typepad.com/witostaircase/2006/06/i_love_jerry_le.html

The Wit Of The Staircase is willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with the French on nearly anything, and that includes their much-ridiculed love of American comic Jerry Lewis.

I have come up with a shrewd {says I} thesis as to why the French revere Lewis. You will find this brilliant idea in the commentary below I recently wrote for the Library Of Congress' Mary Pickford Theater on the occasion of their screening a Wit favorite, Jerry Lewis' "Bellboy".

"Jerry Lewis' status as a filmic auteur revered by the French is something of a baffling cliché in the Anglophone world. But the Legion of Honor ribbon and approbation of Jean-Luc Godard are perhaps less perplexing than why, after directing twelve films, he still remains something of a prophet without honor in his own land.

...

Despite the brilliant gags and touches of Jacques Tati-esque poetry in The Bellboy, the simple reason the French revere Jerry Lewis may be that clumsy, loud, uncivilized Stanley is how all we Americans look to the French. Which might finally explain our resistance to Lewis' smart, insightful and particularly vernacular comedy: the joke, it seems, is on all of us." (writer/filmmaker Theresa Duncan)

...

Comments

I lived in Paris for fifteen years, and have my own theory not far from " the joke, it seems, is on all of us."

The French have a very primitive sense of humor. They truly love to see a person make an utter ass of themselves. When a Frenchman wants to be funny, he humiliates himself for the amusement of others.

To the French, Jerry Lewis was doing just that. He was therefore the epitome of what the French find funny. The person willing to peel off his skin and slip on it like a banana peel for a laugh.



http://www.economist.com/diversions/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2281647

The French have jokes, but do they have a sense of humour?

'Baron, how did you find the English?
'Very distracting. They have a form of conversation
called humour, which makes everyone laugh a lot.'
‘Humour—is this like esprit?'
‘No, not really.'
‘But then how do you translate it?'
‘Well, I can't. We in France don't have a word for it.'

This scene in the film “Ridicule”, by Patrice Leconte, shows a marquis at the court of Louis XVI in Versailles telling other courtiers and their crinolined companions about his discovery of humour during a trip to England. He tries to illustrate this peculiar phenomenon by telling a joke he has heard in England. No one laughs until another courtier adds a witty, slightly dirty remark to the English joke.

...

“We still have the naivety to believe in certain things,” says Plantu. “We do not have the detachment that characterises English humour, we are more militant. If we have a cause to protest, however minor, we tear open our shirts, run into the street and shout ‘Shoot me!'”

Farci de farces

If the Latin emotions of the French sit uneasily with humour, so does the French logical mind. French children are instilled with Cartesian esprit (here meaning mind) at school and, even more, in the grandes écoles, the country's elite universities. When your correspondent was at university in France, she was told her poor performance was due to an Anglo-Saxon mind that made her unable to think properly, or rather logically. A French Cartesian mind does not know what to make of a nonsensical story, such as this one. “The governor of the Bank of England began an address to an assembly of bankers with these words: ‘There are three kinds of economists, those who can count and those who can't.'” A joke of this kind would be met with incomprehension by French listeners. It is not logical.

Self-deprecation, another essential ingredient of a “detached” sense of humour, is not the forte of the French. But if France is too emotional, too logical or too unsure of itself for humour, it can at least fall back on farce as a way of releasing the emotions. The French love Jerry Lewis, the American they call le roi du crazy; he has even been awarded the Legion of Honour, the country's highest decoration. And of course France produces its own farces. One of the best-loved of recent years is the at times heavy-handed film “Le Père Noël est une Ordure” (“Father Christmas is a Shit”), directed by Jean-Marie Poiré. It shows Pierre and Thérèse, staffers at a charity, manning the telephones on Christmas Eve to help callers in despair. Zézette, a pregnant woman, arrives at the office, fleeing her violent husband, Félix, who is close behind her. Félix, still wearing his working clothes as Father Christmas, is subdued by Pierre and Thérèse and ends up in hospital. The second visitor at the office is Katia, a manic-depressive transvestite in search of Mr or Miss Right. The ensuing series of catastrophes reaches its climax when Félix returns with a gun, a lift repairman is killed, Pierre loses his virginity to Thérèse, and Félix and Zézette dispose of the dead repairman.

“Le Père Noël est une Ordure” was a big hit in France, but flopped elsewhere, especially in America, where “Santa Claus is a Louse”, as it was called, bombed. So did Mr Poiré's next film, “The Visitors”, another farce, this one about medieval life, which also won a cult following in France.

Why do French comic films not travel well when those made in Britain or America—whether by Woody Allen, John Cleese or the Monty Python team—seem to make people laugh all over the world? One answer, perhaps, is that audiences in other countries simply do not have the French fondness of puerile farce. Another, though, may be that the things that make the French laugh involve linguistic somersaults that only work in their own language. Much of French humour is jeux des mots, untranslatable wordplays.

Cartoons are an exception. French-made cartoons and illustrated stories are a huge success worldwide. René Goscinny and Albert Uderzo created Astérix, one of the most successful cartoons ever. They are also the fathers of Lucky Luke. And Jean-Jacques Sempé and Mr Goscinny together created a series of books about the adventures of a little boy, le pétit Nicolas.

Je dis, je dis! Bien je jamais!

A meeting organised by the French Ethnological Society in 1997 about “The Universe of Astérix” found that probably the most successful French cartoon was translated into 72 languages, five regional languages (such as Corsican and Alsatian) and 18 dialects, including Berliner German and Cantonese Chinese. Yet the cartoon's jokes were hard work for translators. Much of the humour in Astérix consists of wordplays, onomatopoeia and animal noises that are impossible to render in another language. Translators tended to leave onomatopoetic expressions like snip, tchac, paf or tchac in the original, though they mean nothing in Cantonese or Swedish. The cartoon's text also makes frequent use of the French language's countless homonyms such as la tribu (the tribe) and l'attribut (the attribute), or ma reine (my queen) and marraine (godmother). They generally have no equivalent in other languages, so the joke is lost.

The translation of “Astérix chez les Bretons” was particularly difficult, says Henriette Touillier-Feyrabend of the National Centre for Scientific Research, as its humour depended on using English grammar in French. Astérix and his companions would, for instance, look for the magique potion's tonneau (the magic potion's cask) rather than le tonneau de la potion magique.

Yet, despite translators' best efforts, a mésentente cordiale remains when it comes to funniness. At the end of the film “Ridicule”, mentioned at the start of this article, the hat of the Marquis de Bellegarde is blown away by the wind. Interrupting his lamentations, an English lord (who has caught the hat) remarks that it is better than losing one's head. Ah, cries Bellegarde, this is English humour!



[Edited at 2006-07-19 14:40]
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chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
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我也没听到Lance说话的现场报道,所以很难判断,但我想不会太过分 Jul 19, 2006

我猜想他是说:法国队真笨,连意大利都踢不过;或者是:法国队笨蛋,上了意大利人的当

法国人对美国人的了解要比美国人对法国的了解多,就像中国人对美国的了解比美国人对中国的了解多

你说的例子是上一代人的事了,我女儿这一代,看美国系列片比
... See more
我猜想他是说:法国队真笨,连意大利都踢不过;或者是:法国队笨蛋,上了意大利人的当

法国人对美国人的了解要比美国人对法国的了解多,就像中国人对美国的了解比美国人对中国的了解多

你说的例子是上一代人的事了,我女儿这一代,看美国系列片比看法国系列片多, 小的时候,还会把法国与美国搞混。我是国际人,什么都看

我这里有由美国“Newsweek"一位常驻巴黎、波恩、罗马、耶路撒冷记者在法国反对伊拉克战争后写的两本书,一本是在这个美国人眼中的法国人,另一本是他在法国呆了十年后回到美国Ohio的体会,两本书都很诙谐,其中第一本对法国人挖苦的厉害,却受到不少这里读者的欢迎。我本来也想抽几段翻译供大家欣赏,但是缺少时间,而且怕不了解文化背景的读者无法理解其中的幽默。

他书中的幽默我没觉得不可理解,大概因为我既不是法国人也不是美国人

[Edited at 2006-07-19 17:30]
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wherestip
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A roast Jul 19, 2006

chance wrote:

我猜想他是说:法国队真笨,连意大利都踢不过;或者是:法国队笨蛋,上了意大利人的当

法国人对美国人的了解要比美国人对法国的了解多,就像中国人对美国的了解比美国人对中国的了解多

你说的例子是上一代人的事了,我女儿这一代,看美国系列片比看法国系列片多, 小的时候,还会把法国与美国搞混。我是国际人,什么都看

我这里有由美国“Newsweek"一位常驻巴黎、波恩、罗马、耶路撒冷记者在法国反对伊拉克战争后写的两本书,一本是在这个美国人眼中的法国人,另一本是他在法国呆了十年后回到美国Ohio的体会,两本书都很诙谐,其中第一本对法国人挖苦的厉害,却受到不少这里读者的欢迎。我本来也想抽几段翻译供大家欣赏,但是缺少时间,而且怕不了解文化背景的读者无法理解其中的幽默。

他书中的幽默我没觉得不可理解,大概因为我既不是法国人也不是美国人



I just looked this up. This type of speech is what they call a "roast". The speaker pokes fun at someone or something in good fun. It is totally harmless, and not mean-spirited. Some even roast mildly at a funeral to honor the deceased.

http://www.iparty.com/Page2092.cfm

http://www.joe-ks.com/roasts.htm

Whether it be for a birthday surprise, a retirement party or some other occasion where one person is being honored, a roast is perfect - as long as your guest of honor has a sense of humor!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/13/sportsline/main1798673.shtml

Lance Armstrong Lets Loose

Poking Fun At Self & Others, In Monologue As Host Of ESPYs

...

Armstrong's jokes were peppered with expletives and a provocative reference to the testicular cancer he successfully battled.

He zinged France - the site of his record seven Tour de France victories and ground zero for the accusations of steroid use he's faced - and the country's appearance in the World Cup final.

Armstrong singled out some of the superstar athletes in the audience, including Olympic skier Bode Miller, who was criticized for partying hearty during the Turin Games.

"Bode Miller is here, totally sober," Armstrong cracked. "He only drinks when he races."

Miller was shown laughing.

...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story/0,,1821547,00.html


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
Thanks Wherestip! Jul 20, 2006

有幸能在这里与你和老孙这样的美国同僚聊天,确实增长见识,谢谢!

[Edited at 2006-07-20 07:14]


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:17
Chinese to English
+ ...
Irreverent humor Jul 20, 2006

wherestip wrote:

chance wrote:

我猜想他是说:法国队真笨,连意大利都踢不过;或者是:法国队笨蛋,上了意大利人的当



I just looked this up...



Chance,

What I meant was I just checked out what happend with Lance Armstrong and what he had said at the ESPY awards, not that I just looked up the term roast.

I agree with Lance's explanation of the humor thing. People in the U. S. use this kind of humor on occasions like this. A good example is the Oscars. The comics hosting the Oscars feel no qualms about poking fun at other celebrities. The real life incidents they joke about make it that much funnier.

People criticizing Armstrong's words would change their minds if they ever watched the Tonight Show (hosted by Jay Leno) or the David Letterman Show. They'd be amazed at how often the U. S. presidents get laughed at on shows like these. The guests on these shows also get poked fun at all the time.

Dan Quayle once incorrectly corrected a student's spelling of the word "potato", and was made the butt of jokes forever. Dan Quayle, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, et al. were all guests on these shows after being made fun of. These jokes really mean nothing.


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
这里体育界确实有一部分人对Armstrong的不败纪录表示怀疑 Jul 20, 2006

其中有一部分人是出于嫉妒心理,只能更显出他们的水平太低。

[Edited at 2006-07-20 07:27]


 
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2006赛事集锦 (2006 World Cup)






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