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"这一次大陆又输了" Thread poster: deleted. (X)
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jyuan_us 
United States
Local time: 07:36
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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| 看来你没有明白“春风又绿江南岸”中的绿的意思，所以你说它不是动词 | Sep 30, 2014 |
LoyalTrans wrote:
“绿就是动词，不在于它是否是孤例。”
如果这么讲，形容词可以随便当动词用，那么汉语就没什么规则可言，right? 那还纠缠“岂止于大”是否合乎语法的问题干什么？
反过来说，“岂止于大”，我的理解是“岂+止于大”。岂的用法参见“岂有此理”，表示否定的意思。"不止于大", "哪里止于大"，这样的说法有什么不对？？“语法”那里错了？
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 07:36
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 我在讨论岂止于大到底把“更大”的意思翻译出来没有 | Sep 30, 2014 |
Phil Hand wrote:
那你大概是全世界唯一不知道的人！
我是不是“全世界唯一不知道的人”，你是无法证明的；你认为不用说出更大，人们肯定会认为它更大了，都是你的臆测。
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Loise
France
Local time: 13:36
French to Chinese
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| In case of Enghlish -> French translation, | Sep 30, 2014 |
ysun wrote:
假如说，"岂止于大" = "bigger than bigger"，那么"bigger than big"又该如何译呢？
Both "bigger than bigger " and "bigger than big" are to be translated as bigger than big --> plus grand que grand. The two expressions cannot be differentiated in French.
[Edited at 2014-09-30 07:41 GMT]
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LoyalTrans
Local time: 19:36
English to Chinese
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 07:36
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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| 即使很多人能猜到IPHONE 6就是变大了 | Sep 30, 2014 |
jyuan_us wrote: Phil Hand wrote:
那你大概是全世界唯一不知道的人！ 我是不是“全世界唯一不知道的人”，你是无法证明的；你认为不用说出更大，人们肯定会认为它更大了，都是你的臆测。
这并不能改变翻译把比较级漏译这个事实。本来很容易翻译出来的意思却没有翻出来，把猜测这个负担推给读者，这是不守专业操守的做法。
“大”与“更大”，不是一个意思，接受过九年制义务教育的任何人都能看明白，不用去证明它们是同一个意思，因为你是无法得出有说服力的证明的。
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 19:36
Chinese to English
jyuan_us wrote:
你认为不用说出更大，人们肯定会认为它更大了，都是你的臆测。
并不是每个消费者会上苹果网站去看广告。广告的非常重要的目标群体是媒体，而媒体肯定都知道，你可以随便查查大众新闻网站、消费网站和科技网站在九月初的信息，都有讨论艾6的，都已经在说款式会比iPhone5大。
所以可以肯定的是，其中一个重要读者群都明白这事。我身边的时尚男女也都知道。
你说“岂止于大到底把“更大”的意思翻译出来没有”，答案应该是很清楚：没有明确翻译出来，也没有排除。它用的“大”字可以有比较级的意思，但它没有明确指定比较级，因为没有必要，根据语境大家还是可以看明白。
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 19:36
Chinese to English
三周前：
jyuan_us wrote: 这是今年看到的最精辟的等式 Phil Hand wrote:
字面=错误 翻译是要翻译意思的，如果按字面翻译，无异于找本字典一个一个单词去查对，那样做可以的话，还要我们翻译干嘛？
今天：
jyuan_us wrote:
“大”与“更大”，不是一个意思...这是不守专业操守的做法。
字面没有意义，绝对不是我们翻译行的操守规则。
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Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 05:36
English to Chinese
LoyalTrans wrote:
绿不是动词。做动词用的，恐怕就这一个孤例。
红了樱桃，绿了芭蕉。
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Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 05:36
English to Chinese
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 06:36
Chinese to English
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Fargoer wrote: LoyalTrans wrote:
绿不是动词。做动词用的，恐怕就这一个孤例。
红了樱桃，绿了芭蕉。
等红绿灯 “绿” 了再过。
将周围环境 “绿” 化。
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Loise
France
Local time: 13:36
French to Chinese
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 06:36
Chinese to English
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Fargoer wrote:
湖水绿得像一块碧玉。
That's one that nobody would ever notice. Great example.
还有 "红得发紫"。 ...
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Peter Zhuang
Germany
Local time: 13:36
German to English
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wherestip wrote:
等红绿灯 “绿” 了再过。
将周围环境 “绿” 化。
等红绿灯 “变绿” 了再过。这里的动词是“变”。
将周围环境 “绿化”。这里的动词则是“绿化”。
小明没把纸张“绿”，而是将它“涂绿”了。
其实我也不“到”目的地，而是“到达”目的地。
回到“岂止”，如果将“岂止于大”重新写成比较白话的“不只是大”，我会期待有下文。例如：
不只是大，还……
简单说，这句话后面还有令人想象的空间。原文的第一个“比格”也不直接指体积，也带点cryptic的感觉。
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 19:36
Chinese to English
这个动词/形容词的问题，在我们学中文的时候很早就开始跟我们说。我们的老师大概是说：中文没有纯形容词，只有名词和动词。动词的定义是可以当谓语的单词。比如说，“大”：
这个大>大当动词
这个是很大的>大被改成形容词
好像每个形容词都是名词或者动词改过来的...好久没有想这些，有点记不清楚，但大概是那个意思。英文像happy之类的纯形容词�... See more 这个动词/形容词的问题，在我们学中文的时候很早就开始跟我们说。我们的老师大概是说：中文没有纯形容词，只有名词和动词。动词的定义是可以当谓语的单词。比如说，“大”：
这个大>大当动词
这个是很大的>大被改成形容词
好像每个形容词都是名词或者动词改过来的...好久没有想这些，有点记不清楚，但大概是那个意思。英文像happy之类的纯形容词，中文是没有的（好像古文和现代普通话都是这样）。
你们没有听过这概念吗？
对了，维基百科就有：
Chinese adjectives (simplified Chinese: 形容词; traditional Chinese: 形容詞; pinyin: xíngróngcí) differ from those in English in that they can be used as verbs (for example 天黑了 tiān hēi le "The sky has become dark") and thus linguists sometimes prefer to use the terms static or stative verb to describe them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_adjectives
在研究语法中，有些重要学者如赵元任、詹姆斯·麦考利等都认为，汉语是形-动一体的语言，形容词是动词的一个次类。
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/形容词
[Edited at 2014-09-30 12:08 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 06:36
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Elegance for elegance's sake | Sep 30, 2014 |
Phil Hand wrote:
Then the "bigger" thing. First, it's not correct to say it hasn't been translated. 大 can mean bigger. The 大 is not marked as a comparative, but that choice is up to the translator. 岂止于大 could very well mean "Much more than bigger."
Second, and much more important: the translator of slogans has the freedom to drop non-salient points where necessary, and this particular comparative was not hugely salient. The difference between a "big phone" and a "bigger phone" is subtle at best.
Third, this "no good reason" thing. I can give you one very good reason: 岂止于大 is rhythmically lovely. 岂止更大 is about as ugly a phrase as one might wish to find on this earth. It's about on a par with "bigger than bigger."
Phil,
I think your first two points are being hotly debated, so I won't say much but this: for a simple three-word slogan like "bigger than bigger" - as ugly as it might be - IMO it's hard to say any word (or any point) is non-salient.
As for your 3rd argument, as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Granted, "岂止于大" may seem more elegant in Chinese to some, but the conventional wisdom (or theory) translating into Chinese gives lesser weight to elegance than to fidelity and accuracy(信、达、雅). One might argue that for advertising purposes, elegance suddenly leaps ahead to become the foremost consideration or objective, and the other two could or should take a back seat. Well, I personally don't subscribe to that, yet I could understand the thinking behind it. 
[Edited at 2014-10-01 11:04 GMT]
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