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"这一次大陆又输了"
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jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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其实岂止于大是有语法错误的 Sep 22, 2014

岂止后边不能跟于。这不是规范的中文IDIOM。乱来而已。

 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 06:36
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有趣的问题 Sep 22, 2014

jyuan_us wrote:

岂止后边不能跟于。这不是规范的中文IDIOM。乱来而已。



按照译者的意思,“岂止于大”似乎应读作:岂(止于)大。至于是否规范,仍可以探讨。


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
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Local time: 17:36
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hmm ... Sep 22, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

岂止后边不能跟于。这不是规范的中文IDIOM。乱来而已。



按照译者的意思,“岂止于大”似乎应读作:岂(止于)大。至于是否规范,仍可以探讨。


你们说得有一定道理。会不会是 “岂只止于大” 的缩写? ...


[Edited at 2014-09-22 12:30 GMT]


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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那样的话 Sep 22, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

岂止后边不能跟于。这不是规范的中文IDIOM。乱来而已。



按照译者的意思,“岂止于大”似乎应读作:岂(止于)大。至于是否规范,仍可以探讨。


应该是岂能止于大,岂只至于大(如同STEVE的意见)。


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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听起来像缩写 Sep 22, 2014

wherestip wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

岂止后边不能跟于。这不是规范的中文IDIOM。乱来而已。



按照译者的意思,“岂止于大”似乎应读作:岂(止于)大。至于是否规范,仍可以探讨。


你们说得有一定道理。会不会是 “岂只止于大” 的缩写? ...


[Edited at 2014-09-22 12:30 GMT]


但是这个缩写缩得不规范。解读为“岂不是止于大?”仍然能通,意思就反了。


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
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Local time: 17:36
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意思反了 Sep 22, 2014

jyuan_us wrote:



但是这个缩写缩得不规范。解读为“岂不是止于大?”仍然能通,意思就反了。


对,还是老实点说 “岂止更大”。

嗨,这种东西分析起来头都大了。 ...


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 06:36
English to Chinese
+ ...
“岂”的意思 Sep 22, 2014

wherestip wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

岂止后边不能跟于。这不是规范的中文IDIOM。乱来而已。



按照译者的意思,“岂止于大”似乎应读作:岂(止于)大。至于是否规范,仍可以探讨。


你们说得有一定道理。会不会是 “岂只止于大” 的缩写? ...


[Edited at 2014-09-22 12:30 GMT]


http://dict.baidu.com/s?wd=岂

相当于“难道”,“怎么”

岂(止于)大后面应该是问号,意思是难道只是大吗?它在各个方面都有改进。基本上说得通。

[Edited at 2014-09-22 15:17 GMT]


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:36
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+ ...
反问的句式可能把原来意思变了 Sep 22, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

wherestip wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

岂止后边不能跟于。这不是规范的中文IDIOM。乱来而已。



按照译者的意思,“岂止于大”似乎应读作:岂(止于)大。至于是否规范,仍可以探讨。


你们说得有一定道理。会不会是 “岂只止于大” 的缩写? ...


[Edited at 2014-09-22 12:30 GMT]


http://dict.baidu.com/s?wd=岂

相当于“难道”,“怎么”

岂(止于)大后面应该是问号,意思是难度只是大吗?它在各个方面都有改进。基本上说得通。


I see what you're saying. Then there's really a hidden question mark at the end of the Chinese slogan that turns the slogan into a rhetorical question. That is quite different than the original English slogan, which is assertive out-and-out.


[Edited at 2014-09-22 14:10 GMT]


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:36
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鸡蛋里挑挑骨头 Sep 22, 2014

Anyway, I agree with jyuan on this. If you really scrutinize "岂止于大", in my opinion it's really not all that hot a slogan. Like he pointed out, it's debatable whether it conforms to a standard Mandarin speech pattern. "岂止是更大" or "岂止更大" IMO is better.

Of course, it's possible that such wording as "岂止于大" could be totally fine in Cantonese. It's one of the those things where language
... See more
Anyway, I agree with jyuan on this. If you really scrutinize "岂止于大", in my opinion it's really not all that hot a slogan. Like he pointed out, it's debatable whether it conforms to a standard Mandarin speech pattern. "岂止是更大" or "岂止更大" IMO is better.

Of course, it's possible that such wording as "岂止于大" could be totally fine in Cantonese. It's one of the those things where language diversity in localization might be a valid issue. Even though speech habits (could?) have been converging more and more among different regions(两岸三地) in recent years, there still might be some very noticeable differences.


[Edited at 2014-09-22 21:17 GMT]
Collapse


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 06:36
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同意 Sep 22, 2014

wherestip wrote:

Anyway, I agree with jyuan on this. If you really scrutinize "岂止于大", it's really not all that hot a slogan.


这个译法当然不是完美的。


 
Yan Yuliang
Yan Yuliang  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:36
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有趣的是 Sep 22, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

wherestip wrote:

Anyway, I agree with jyuan on this. If you really scrutinize "岂止于大", it's really not all that hot a slogan.


这个译法当然不是完美的。


似乎没有人注意到这个问题。

另外,贴个有趣的类似汉语表达:“岂止于米,相期以茶”。仔细品味,当然和“岂止于大”不完全一样,但也有些类似。

订正:原文是“何止于米,相期以茶”。看来这个不可作为参考了。

[Edited at 2014-09-22 14:45 GMT]


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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Local time: 17:36
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求同存异 Sep 22, 2014

David Lin wrote:

Ysun,

谢谢你分享个人的看法。我了解你提出的意见及其原由,对其中也有很多赞同之处,但是觉得讨论应该到此为止。其实我的贴题的原来目的,只是调查一下同仁对于三个广告翻译句子的意见而已,我现已知道答案。结果讨论出来这么多材料及方向,虽然有点意想不到,却是令人满意之事。:)

也谢谢 J.H. 和 Phil 之前的直接或间接参与及 P.K. 刚分享的 iPhone 创作宣传短片,给我更多适时且有用的意见及丰富的信息,对于以后的创作翻译会有帮助。实在感激万分。

David,

谢谢你的建议。我同意对这三个句子的讨论就到此为止。如同对电影《山楂树之恋》的讨论,你我就求同存异吧。你既懂广告翻译理论,又有丰富的广告翻译实践经验。我从你的发言中学到了许多东西。

我始终认为,我们这里讨论的意义主要在于过程,而不在于结果。你用这三个句子,考考大家的眼光,要大家说说哪一个最到位?哪一个最差?我个人认为,简单地排个名次,没有太大意义,因为这不是两岸三地代表国家或地区水平的翻译比赛。只有深入地讨论一下各种版本,才有意义。如果仔细分析一下三种版本(不光是这三句译文),就能发现其中都有或大或小的缺点和错误。我并不认为我的所有意见都对,但如果我的某些观点能引起别人对各种问题进行更深入的思考,我也就满意了。谢谢你在百忙之中抽空发表宝贵的意见,也感谢参与讨论和提供参考资料的其他同仁。


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:36
English to Chinese
+ ...
Agree Sep 22, 2014

wherestip wrote:

Anyway, I agree with jyuan on this. If you really scrutinize "岂止于大", in my opinion it's really not all that hot a slogan. Like he pointed out, it's debatable whether it conforms to a standard Mandarin speech pattern. "岂止是更大" or "岂止更大" IMO is better.


[Edited at 2014-09-22 14:11 GMT]

"岂止更大"非常好。“岂止于大”确实不怎么样。我不懂广告口号的翻译,但若要我用大白话说,我会说“何止更大”。


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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Local time: 18:36
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+ ...
用豈字作反問 Sep 22, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

wherestip wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

岂止后边不能跟于。这不是规范的中文IDIOM。乱来而已。



按照译者的意思,“岂止于大”似乎应读作:岂(止于)大。至于是否规范,仍可以探讨。


你们说得有一定道理。会不会是 “岂只止于大” 的缩写? ...


[Edited at 2014-09-22 12:30 GMT]


http://dict.baidu.com/s?wd=岂

相当于“难道”,“怎么”

岂(止于)大后面应该是问号,意思是难道只是大吗?它在各个方面都有改进。基本上说得通。

[Edited at 2014-09-22 15:17 GMT]


後邊只能跟“不是”。豈不是止於大嗎? 意思仍然和英文相反。


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:36
English to Chinese
+ ...
含糊其词的“岂止于大” Sep 22, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

http://dict.baidu.com/s?wd=岂

相当于“难道”,“怎么”

岂(止于)大后面应该是问号,意思是难道只是大吗?它在各个方面都有改进。基本上说得通。

[Edited at 2014-09-22 15:17 GMT]

如果译者的意思确实就是“难道只是大吗?”,那也说不过去。他做广告的不以明确无疑的词语来广而告之,却来问老百姓“难道只是大吗?”这算什么事儿?难道他还指望谁给他答复吗?再说,原文是 bigger,而不是 big。

再说,“止于”也可理解为“停止于”。例如,流言止于智者。因此,“岂(止于)大”也可理解为“难道就止于大(这一特点)吗?” 这也说不过去。

然而,“岂止更大”意思就不同了。“岂止”就等于“何止”、“不仅”(more than)。"bigger than bigger"就是“岂止更大”、“何止更大”、“不仅更大”(而且更佳、更强)。

所以说,“岂止于大”与“比更大还更大”相比,就是半斤八两。豁嘴吃肥肉 — 肥(谁)也甭说肥(谁)!


 
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