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試譯失敗經歷
Thread poster: Kenneth Woo
Alan Wang
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job snatch, zero success Apr 20, 2014

如果抢单是常态的话,是不是会相当费时费神?
我自己的经历是等客户下单。老客户一般隔三岔五地来稿。
一年只是屈指可数的几次利用Proz的工作公告试图找新客户,平均每年可能不到十次。成功率几乎是零。


Phil Hand wrote:

Alan Wang wrote:

我做到现在还基本没搞什么合作,都是单枪匹马。

这不就是freelancer的份吗?我是不相信所谓的“合作”,长期稳定的工作叫做职位,所谓合作是很虚的概念。抢单是我们的常态,无论是小单子还是整本书,都是抢来的。


 
Jinhang Wang
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直接叫我 J.H. 或 Jinhang 好了 Apr 20, 2014

Kenneth Woo wrote:

回陳前輩、J.H. Wang、Fargoer:
謝謝三位。我以後會盡量用保險的譯法的。其實我從不自我發揮,只是有時明明知道通行譯法,但還是選用自己喜歡的,比如我往往把NGO(通行譯法:非官方組織)譯成「民間組織」,把volunteer(通行譯法:志願者)譯成「義工」;再就是有時為照顧中文,我的譯文不從原文句子順序。


否则,我会觉得不自然,有点尴尬,:-)


 
Jinhang Wang
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咬文嚼字 Apr 20, 2014

Fargoer wrote:

“freefall” 译为“自由落体”在这里是有些太过拘泥字典,但意思没有错。把“freefall”拆开来解,“free fall ” 还是“自由落体”。其实,“freefall ” 就是物体在不受任何其他外力影响单纯在重力作用下从高处落到地面。在物理实验中,我们把这种现象叫做“自由落体”。这里的“free” 确实是“without”的意思,指的是没有重力之外的任何外力,与恐惧和任何其他人类情感无关。在生活中,“freefall” 就是直接跌落的意思,譬如坠楼、跳水、跌落悬崖等等。人类由于生存本能而天生恐惧跌落,“freefall” 仅在这个意义上与恐惧有关。换句话说,“freefall” 的词义中不含恐惧的意涵,而人对“freefall ”的感受中包含恐惧。

杂技艺术说到底是一种心理的表演,运用肢体的力量和技巧来利用和对抗地心引力,达到令人惊叹的心理效果。台上的演员要克服高空跌落的心理恐惧,表演得好像不受重力的支配那样流畅自如;同时要利用观众对高空跌落的恐惧,以及基于常识(自由落体规律)而怀有的期待,一次一次被打破这些期待,让观众叹为观止。

可以考虑将“freefall ” 直译为“坠落”,或者夸张一点,译为“飞落惊魂”、“直下九天”也未尝不可。只是看完这个团体的表演可能会大失所望,因为他们的水平其实没有那么高。:)



再探讨一下 free fall 的译法。其实,“自由落体”是不太准确的,“自由降落”、“自由下落”还差不多。

定义如下:

[mass noun]downward movement under the force of gravity only

《新牛津英汉双解大词典》


 
David Lin
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Moderator of this forum
Sandstone is a key building material in the mid-19th Century Apr 20, 2014

wherestip wrote:

David,

对的。 They used slave labor to build the Great Pyramids, including masons who had to shape the building blocks.


Steve,

Exactly. All human wisdoms are the same which is ageless - from the making of pyramids in Egypt to buildings in Capitol Hill in Washington DC. Masons played a great role in the 19th century architecture when sandstone was a popular material though it was vulnerable to erosion.

Look at the beautiful carvings inside that I think are quite majestic:
http://www.aoc.gov/capitol-hill/architecture/sandstone

I gathered the carvings inside Theatre Royal could be done by the convicts too.

Contrary to Egypt's use of slavery in the biblical civilization, the Brits abolished slavery in 1833. As a result of the passing of the Slavery Abolition Act, they could no longer use slaves to build their new colony of Australia, but rather use the growing population of convicts spilled from the overcrowded prisons in Britain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_Abolition_Act_1833


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 17:07
English to Chinese
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关于 physical theatre 译法的一点探讨 Apr 20, 2014

clearwater wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

physical theatre 该如何译?肢体舞剧可否?

请看一段 physical theatre 的经典舞段。The cost of living

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NShJJr1ztkM


按<英汉大词典>的解释:
physical theatre:(强调以身体动作为表现艺术的)形体剧

与你所说的肢体舞剧差不多。


从网上搜索了一下,“形体剧” 是比较公认的译法。不过,我个人觉得似乎还可以再探讨一下。

形体的主要含义:

http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=Ea3BLSrJYZPN4nsx7KFRs7gZDraGSp4bwP33TkBcbGDoyyZA7eDHlbrhXS7chgjV


①身体;体态:
②形状和结构:

也就是是说,“形体”这个词主要有两种含义,因此“形体剧”这个词在普通人看来,就有一定的模糊性和歧义性。我觉得可以考虑:身体动作剧,或者身体剧。这样翻译,一方面不会有歧义,另一方面意思更为清晰明确。各位觉得如何?


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 17:07
English to Chinese
+ ...
一点补充 Apr 20, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

“freefall” 译为“自由落体”在这里是有些太过拘泥字典,但意思没有错。把“freefall”拆开来解,“free fall ” 还是“自由落体”。其实,“freefall ” 就是物体在不受任何其他外力影响单纯在重力作用下从高处落到地面。在物理实验中,我们把这种现象叫做“自由落体”。这里的“free” 确实是“without”的意思,指的是没有重力之外的任何外力,与恐惧和任何其他人类情感无关。在生活中,“freefall” 就是直接跌落的意思,譬如坠楼、跳水、跌落悬崖等等。人类由于生存本能而天生恐惧跌落,“freefall” 仅在这个意义上与恐惧有关。换句话说,“freefall” 的词义中不含恐惧的意涵,而人对“freefall ”的感受中包含恐惧。

杂技艺术说到底是一种心理的表演,运用肢体的力量和技巧来利用和对抗地心引力,达到令人惊叹的心理效果。台上的演员要克服高空跌落的心理恐惧,表演得好像不受重力的支配那样流畅自如;同时要利用观众对高空跌落的恐惧,以及基于常识(自由落体规律)而怀有的期待,一次一次被打破这些期待,让观众叹为观止。

可以考虑将“freefall ” 直译为“坠落”,或者夸张一点,译为“飞落惊魂”、“直下九天”也未尝不可。只是看完这个团体的表演可能会大失所望,因为他们的水平其实没有那么高。:)



再探讨一下 free fall 的译法。其实,“自由落体”是不太准确的,“自由降落”、“自由下落”还差不多。

定义如下:

[mass noun]downward movement under the force of gravity only

《新牛津英汉双解大词典》


刚才看了一下原文,其实,在前面探讨的语境中,翻译成”自由落体“还是不错的。

另外,这个词也在物理学中使用,我觉得在这时最好翻译成“自由降落”或“自由下落”等,而不是自由落体。


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 17:07
English to Chinese
+ ...
”迷信“ 是个很不错的译法 Apr 20, 2014

Kenneth Woo wrote:

stevenzhao wrote:
myth这个词常用的意思应该有两个,一个是“神话”,另一个似乎可以译为“谬见”。将马杂团的名字译成“不信邪马戏团”似乎有些过于口语化,译成“万有引力与其他神话”虽然拗口,但其实贴近原意,因为杂技表演其实就是在卖弄技巧,让人觉得神乎其神,好像神话。


《朗文當代英語詞典》對「myth」解釋如下:
1. 「an idea or story that many people believe, but which is not true」
2. 「an ancient story, especially one invented in order to explain natural or historical events」

可見,雜技團名字中該字當取第一個意思。

「myth」為idea近於中文「迷信」,為story則近於中文「謠言」。用「謬見」來譯「myth」恐不妥,因為「謬見」關乎是非(對錯),而「myth」則言真假。


[Edited at 2014-04-18 03:22 GMT]



从意思上讲,比”神话“更准确些。


 
David Lin
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形体或肢体剧塲都有人用 Apr 20, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

clearwater wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

physical theatre 该如何译?肢体舞剧可否?

请看一段 physical theatre 的经典舞段。The cost of living

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NShJJr1ztkM


按<英汉大词典>的解释:
physical theatre:(强调以身体动作为表现艺术的)形体剧

与你所说的肢体舞剧差不多。


从网上搜索了一下,“形体剧” 是比较公认的译法。不过,我个人觉得似乎还可以再探讨一下。

形体的主要含义:

http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=Ea3BLSrJYZPN4nsx7KFRs7gZDraGSp4bwP33TkBcbGDoyyZA7eDHlbrhXS7chgjV


①身体;体态:
②形状和结构:

也就是是说,“形体”这个词主要有两种含义,因此“形体剧”这个词在普通人看来,就有一定的模糊性和歧义性。我觉得可以考虑:身体动作剧,或者身体剧。这样翻译,一方面不会有歧义,另一方面意思更为清晰明确。各位觉得如何?



一個英國劇團的網站對 physical theatre 有這樣的解釋:

Physical theatre is a catch-all term used to describe any mode of performance that pursues storytelling through primarily physical means. There are several quite distinct traditions of performance which all describe themselves using the term "physical theatre", which has led to a lot of confusion as to what the definition of physical theatre actually is.

The term "Physical theatre" has been applied to performances consisting mainly of:

Mime 默剧
Contemporary dance 现代舞
Theatrical Clowning and other physical comedy 小丑剧
Some forms of puppetry 木偶剧
Theatrical Acrobatics 体操剧

http://www.blackfishacademy.com/physical.htm

如果连 puppetry 也包含在内,只用 ’身体动作‘ 或 ’身体剧‘ 可能不够全面。

香港用法是 '形体剧塲‘ http://www.pplsfringe.com/index.php/en/events-2013/d-2013

台湾的野孩子剧场和北京的蓬蒿剧场 Theatre Without Borders 则用 ‘肢体剧场’ https://zh-tw.facebook.com/lenfant.s.theatre

http://penghaotheatre.com/features/beijing-nanluoguxiang-theatre-festival/performances/fight/

综观以上的解释和用法,或者我们可以得出一个结论吧。


 
wherestip
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Physical Theater Apr 20, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:


http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=Ea3BLSrJYZPN4nsx7KFRs7gZDraGSp4bwP33TkBcbGDoyyZA7eDHlbrhXS7chgjV


①身体;体态:
②形状和结构:

也就是是说,“形体”这个词主要有两种含义,因此“形体剧”这个词在普通人看来,就有一定的模糊性和歧义性。我觉得可以考虑:身体动作剧,或者身体剧。这样翻译,一方面不会有歧义,另一方面意思更为清晰明确。各位觉得如何?



我觉得怎么翻问题都不大,只要不译成 “物理剧院” 就是了。 ...

我觉得与其叫作 “剧”,还不如称为 “艺术”, because it's the art form that the phrase mainly refers to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_theatre



Physical theatre is a genre of theatrical performance that pursues storytelling through primarily physical means. Several performance traditions all describe themselves as "physical theatre", but the unifying aspect is a reliance on physical motion of the performers rather than or combined with text to convey the story. In basic sense, you talk through hand gestures, body language, thought track and many more physical features.



 
wherestip
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剧种、艺术 Apr 20, 2014

Physical theatre is a genre of theatrical performance

 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 17:07
English to Chinese
+ ...
深入一点的探讨 Apr 20, 2014

David Lin wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

clearwater wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

physical theatre 该如何译?肢体舞剧可否?

请看一段 physical theatre 的经典舞段。The cost of living

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NShJJr1ztkM


按<英汉大词典>的解释:
physical theatre:(强调以身体动作为表现艺术的)形体剧

与你所说的肢体舞剧差不多。


从网上搜索了一下,“形体剧” 是比较公认的译法。不过,我个人觉得似乎还可以再探讨一下。

形体的主要含义:

http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=Ea3BLSrJYZPN4nsx7KFRs7gZDraGSp4bwP33TkBcbGDoyyZA7eDHlbrhXS7chgjV


①身体;体态:
②形状和结构:

也就是是说,“形体”这个词主要有两种含义,因此“形体剧”这个词在普通人看来,就有一定的模糊性和歧义性。我觉得可以考虑:身体动作剧,或者身体剧。这样翻译,一方面不会有歧义,另一方面意思更为清晰明确。各位觉得如何?



一個英國劇團的網站對 physical theatre 有這樣的解釋:

Physical theatre is a catch-all term used to describe any mode of performance that pursues storytelling through primarily physical means. There are several quite distinct traditions of performance which all describe themselves using the term "physical theatre", which has led to a lot of confusion as to what the definition of physical theatre actually is.

The term "Physical theatre" has been applied to performances consisting mainly of:

Mime 默剧
Contemporary dance 现代舞
Theatrical Clowning and other physical comedy 小丑剧
Some forms of puppetry 木偶剧
Theatrical Acrobatics 体操剧

http://www.blackfishacademy.com/physical.htm

如果连 puppetry 也包含在内,只用 ’身体动作‘ 或 ’身体剧‘ 可能不够全面。

香港用法是 '形体剧塲‘ http://www.pplsfringe.com/index.php/en/events-2013/d-2013

台湾的野孩子剧场和北京的蓬蒿剧场 Theatre Without Borders 则用 ‘肢体剧场’ https://zh-tw.facebook.com/lenfant.s.theatre

http://penghaotheatre.com/features/beijing-nanluoguxiang-theatre-festival/performances/fight/

综观以上的解释和用法,或者我们可以得出一个结论吧。


其实,从”肢体剧“这个译名我们就我们可以看出来,physical 指的就是”身体“。

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_theatre

其中有:

“Physical theatre is a genre of theatrical performance that pursues storytelling through primarily physical means. Several performance traditions all describe themselves as "physical theatre", but the unifying aspect is a reliance on physical motion of the performers rather than or combined with text to convey the story. In basic sense, you talk through hand gestures, body language, thought track and many more physical features.”

值得重视的内容是: In basic sense, you talk through hand gestures, body language, thought track and many more physical features.

木偶剧中的木偶虽然不是真实的人,但也不能理解为是一种物体,其动作也是肢体动作。


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
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English to Chinese
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我这里侧重的是汉语语言的规范化问题 Apr 20, 2014

特别是术语的拟定,我觉得要尽可能做到准确、无歧义、明白、易懂等。

 
wherestip
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Please nobody get upset Apr 20, 2014

I understand the frustration sometimes we have in discussions. Of course native English speakers have a better feel for English. And the same applies to native Chinese speakers with Chinese.

Some things you indeed need to confirm by doing a little research, others you don't. Very often you have to spend time looking for convincing backup evidence to support your opinion in a discussion.


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 17:07
English to Chinese
+ ...
抱歉啊 Apr 20, 2014

wherestip wrote:

I understand the frustration sometimes we have in discussions. Of course native English speakers have a better feel for English. And the same applies to native Chinese speakers with Chinese.

Some things you indeed need to confirm by doing a little research, others you don't. Very often you have to spend time looking for convincing backup evidence to support your opinion in a discussion.



我讲话有时候比较直接,希望不要起误会


 
wherestip
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Tradeoffs Apr 20, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

特别是术语的拟定,我觉得要尽可能做到准确、无歧义、明白、易懂等。


J.H.,

是这样。 问题是也不能太 别出心裁,自搞一套,搞得别人莫名其妙。 这就是翻译的难处: 很多东西都要取折衷。


 
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