| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Attention Outsourcers: "best" rate Thread poster: Susan Welsh
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Gad Kohenov 
Israel
Local time: 01:32
English to Hebrew
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| I tell them: | Jun 26, 2015 |
"I don't work for best prices. I work for my prices" That's a good enough hint. They never ever come back.
We are selling computers. There you can sell a big quantity and give a discount and profit from it. We are artists and we don't sell quantity but quality. Best prices? Is that what they want? Tell them to go to Google Translate.
We don't sell any translation more than once. If you have 5 birth certificates with the exact format, will you be foolish enough to sell them as if it w... See more "I don't work for best prices. I work for my prices" That's a good enough hint. They never ever come back.
We are selling computers. There you can sell a big quantity and give a discount and profit from it. We are artists and we don't sell quantity but quality. Best prices? Is that what they want? Tell them to go to Google Translate.
We don't sell any translation more than once. If you have 5 birth certificates with the exact format, will you be foolish enough to sell them as if it was only one? "just" changing the names and dates?
"Best prices" means: "We are looking for Western quality for fourth world prices".
I am nearly 30 years in this business and I learned one thing: "don't ruin your health for less than it is worth". If we will all send these bottom-feeders packing we have a chance of "educating' our clients. Otherwise, they will "educate" us to be losers, agree to get less for words that occur more than once in a text etc.
If you agree to silly demands you are considered "weak" and they will never raise the price for years. An agency told me: "Why do you ask for x+y" per source word? You told us your price was only x per source word." My answer: "That was 5 years ago and the costs of living have gone up tremendously. Only if we go back in the Time Tunnel will you get my older price.
We should have a minimum price from which we don't go down ever. And if an old clients thinks price x is "forever" and refuses to pay "a rise", it is time to say goodbye without looking back.
We are not "upgraded typists". It's a world led by greedy tycoons everywhere. A strike of
as much as it takes will teach them only amateurs are still working, and the damage that create will set them thinking. But if we continue to be individualists, we will have no power and will continue to earn less than decent pay because "there are always enough suckers". You can move to China or India and work for "best prices". If you don't want to do this, fight for your rights or change profession!
G.K. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Link to another discussion of this topic | Jun 26, 2015 |
Susan Welsh wrote:
For an outsourcer to ask potential translators to give their "best" rate is like hanging out a big, red flag inscribed: WE ARE BOTTOM-FEEDERS, LOOKING FOR CHEAPEST TRANSLATORS; QUALITY IS NOT AN ISSUE.
I usually hit the delete button immediately.
On occasion I reply by giving a very high rate, commenting that my "best" rate is given for my best work.
I imagine this post is a waste of time, but if just one outsourcer learns something from it, maybe it will have been worth the minute it took me to write it.
Thank you for posting, Susan!
Here's an earlier thread of mine on the subject:
http://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/285368-spotlight_on_the_best_rate.html
[Edited at 2015-06-26 14:36 GMT]
| | | | | An indicator | Jun 26, 2015 |
For me 'best rate' is just an indicator that the outsourcer is 'second-rate'.
Why? First-rate ones do not go out looking for sombody cheap. Sure, some projects might have tight budgets and they need to have things cheaper than usual. But they would most certainly try to negotiate it and offer something in return. I would sometimes agree to lower my rate when the deadline is really generous - it is a win-win as the client gets it cheaper and I can fill in the inevitable lacunas in m... See more For me 'best rate' is just an indicator that the outsourcer is 'second-rate'.
Why? First-rate ones do not go out looking for sombody cheap. Sure, some projects might have tight budgets and they need to have things cheaper than usual. But they would most certainly try to negotiate it and offer something in return. I would sometimes agree to lower my rate when the deadline is really generous - it is a win-win as the client gets it cheaper and I can fill in the inevitable lacunas in my freelance workflow. ▲ Collapse
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Valery Kaminski wrote:
For me 'best rate' is just an indicator that the outsourcer is 'second-rate'.
Why? First-rate ones do not go out looking for sombody cheap. Sure, some projects might have tight budgets and they need to have things cheaper than usual. But they would most certainly try to negotiate it and offer something in return. I would sometimes agree to lower my rate when the deadline is really generous - it is a win-win as the client gets it cheaper and I can fill in the inevitable lacunas in my freelance workflow.
It's not a win-win when you undercut other professionals. Yes, these posters don't pay much anyway. But it is a problem when they are able to always find people who are willing to work for unprofessional rates. Do you see the big picture? It all has repercussions for all of us.
[Edited at 2015-06-26 14:44 GMT]
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| Need to have things cheaper than usual??!! | Jun 26, 2015 |
Valery Kaminski wrote:
For me 'best rate' is just an indicator that the outsourcer is 'second-rate'.
Why? First-rate ones do not go out looking for sombody cheap. Sure, some projects might have tight budgets and they need to have things cheaper than usual. But they would most certainly try to negotiate it and offer something in return. I would sometimes agree to lower my rate when the deadline is really generous - it is a win-win as the client gets it cheaper and I can fill in the inevitable lacunas in my freelance workflow.
Oh well, I am a bit strapped for cash right now, therefore I need to have it cheaper than usual - sorry, but this made me laugh and I really cannot accept such an argument. If the budget is tight and they can't afford the project then they just have to have less translated or wait until they can afford it, like everywhere else.
I wouldn't dismiss a poster or agency just because they are asking for a good price, I always look at the whole post or agency website when considering whether to apply.
[Edited at 2015-06-26 15:50 GMT]
| | | | | A thought on the word "offer" | Jun 26, 2015 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
This knee-jerk reaction only occurs in translators who believe that when a client offers a low rate, the client actually wants lower quality.
Just food for thought, because it can matter in how we approach things. The client is not "offering" a low rate. He is requesting to pay a low rate. The client has a need which we can fulfill if we feel qualified, and for which we should charge what the work is worth.
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If the job interests you, quote the price you are willing to work at, click "submit quote", and forget about it.
Posters are not going to stop using the term just because you ask them to on a forum. Just as bottom-feeders will not stop simply because people keep posting about low rates. This is the reality of the translation market. In other words, there are agencies who pay low prices for their own reasons (and we all know what they are), and those who pay higher rates.
... See more If the job interests you, quote the price you are willing to work at, click "submit quote", and forget about it.
Posters are not going to stop using the term just because you ask them to on a forum. Just as bottom-feeders will not stop simply because people keep posting about low rates. This is the reality of the translation market. In other words, there are agencies who pay low prices for their own reasons (and we all know what they are), and those who pay higher rates.
That's it. End of story. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Surely you always quote your best rate? | Jun 26, 2015 |
You quote as much as you think you can get away with. End of.
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Fiona Peterson wrote:
If the job interests you, quote the price you are willing to work at, click "submit quote", and forget about it.
Posters are not going to stop using the term just because you ask them to on a forum. Just as bottom-feeders will not stop simply because people keep posting about low rates. This is the reality of the translation market. In other words, there are agencies who pay low prices for their own reasons (and we all know what they are), and those who pay higher rates.
That's it. End of story.
Yeah, I should give up educating anyone. Especially here.
[Edited at 2015-06-26 19:49 GMT]
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Chris S wrote:
You quote as much as you think you can get away with. End of.
I really have difficulty understanding the fuss about the best rate. Whether it is expressively requested or not, I think everybody will quote his/her "best rate" if interested in getting a job. Noone will quote deliberately a price that is considered way above the market rate and thus uncompetitive.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 00:32
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| On what "offer" means | Jun 26, 2015 |
Maxi Schwarz wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
This knee-jerk reaction only occurs in translators who believe that when a client offers a low rate, the client actually wants lower quality. Just food for thought, because it can matter in how we approach things. The client is not "offering" a low rate. He is requesting to pay a low rate.
We can split hairs about what "offer" means, but in the above sentence I used it in a relative sense. In the simplest sense, the person stating (or suggesting) the terms is the one making the "offer". One can offer money in exchange for a given service (and negotiate about the money), or one can offer a service in exchange for a given amount of money (and negotiate about the service). It makes little difference which is which.
Bernhard Sulzer wrote: Fiona Peterson wrote:
Posters are not going to stop using the term just because you ask them to on a forum. Yeah, I should give up educating anyone.
No, by all means, keep educating. It may be useful to someone to be aware that if he uses the term "best rate", there will be translators who will regard him in a negative light.
[Edited at 2015-06-26 20:12 GMT]
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Susan Welsh wrote:
For an outsourcer to ask potential translators to give their "best" rate is like hanging out a big, red flag inscribed: WE ARE BOTTOM-FEEDERS, LOOKING FOR CHEAPEST TRANSLATORS; QUALITY IS NOT AN ISSUE.
I usually hit the delete button immediately.
On occasion I reply by giving a very high rate, commenting that my "best" rate is given for my best work.
I imagine this post is a waste of time, but if just one outsourcer learns something from it, maybe it will have been worth the minute it took me to write it.
Seems like it from the last posts. Oh well, it was worth a try.
If you find nothing wrong with people demanding best rates/prices from translators, I don't think we can be helped. If you can't see or don't agree with the big picture, we can't be helped. So yeah, that would have been a waste of time. But who knows, maybe someone's getting something out of it. Nothing personal. Just my two cents.
[Edited at 2015-06-26 23:47 GMT]
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Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 18:32
Japanese to English
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Very frequently an agency will post "your best rate based on long-term cooperation" or "best rate based on potential high volume". This is a scam as no one can predict what will be available six months from now or if the job really has high-volume potential. When you see this, you know you are entering bottom feeder territory.
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Bernhard Sulzer wrote: Fiona Peterson wrote:
...In other words, there are agencies who pay low prices for their own reasons (and we all know what they are), and those who pay higher rates.
That's it. End of story.
Yeah, I should give up educating anyone. Especially here. [Edited at 2015-06-26 19:49 GMT]
Bernard,
I do not think you should stop educating anyone, as you put it, (i.e., expressing your concerns), especially here, where such education is most needed, at least judging by what is going on on the jobs board.
As you have expressed a few times, low bidders really affect the overall market, regardless of what some say: "Oh, it only affects the lowest segment of the market," or something along those lines.
We have all seen what happens when an oil spill occurs in the sea. It does not stop here or there, just keeps expanding until, hopefully, proper measures are taken.
By voicing our concerns, sooner o later, some low bidders might learn that if they deliver quality work they are entitled to livable rates, or even some bottom feeders might realize that by being willing to pay decent rates the likelihood of them getting quality work is naturally higher, less risky, for obvious reasons. Yes, rates count.
I am sure, way many more colleagues that you think see things the way you do, Bernard. Me, among them.
Please keep expressing your opinions, especially here...
| | | | | Not good translator but they are searching for cheap laborer | Jun 27, 2015 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
They're afraid that if they propose a rate first, it would be higher than the one that you'd have been willing to accept (-:
Exactly that is their point, but they also know quality comes with high rate, as per their thinking. They are not searching for good translator but they are searching for cheap laborer.
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