| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] | A large agency's new pricing structure for translations utilizing CAT tools Thread poster: Robert Forstag
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564354352 (X) 
Denmark
Local time: 16:20
Danish to English
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| CAT tools are just that: tools of the trade | Mar 6, 2015 |
Kenneth Woo wrote:
that many of us seem to buy CAT tools in order to give discounts to translation agencies who have been trying hard to drive our rates down. Do they give discounts to their clients? I guess many don't.
I beg to differ - I have never come across a translator who bought CAT tools in order to give discounts. CAT tools are useful for structuring translation work and for drawing on the work you have already done. If you CHOOSE to give discounts due to fuzzy matching and repetitions, that is entirely up to you. But it is not the object of CAT tools as such...
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 16:20
Spanish to English
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| Like Gitte ... | Mar 6, 2015 |
... I didn't buy a CAT to make myself cheaper. If anything, to make myself more expensive. I have a feeling that, at the beginning of all this, CAT bosses were whipping up excitement among agencies, telling them they could use their best translators at first to create the TM, and then send any subsequent stuff to bottom-feeders working for next to nothing, filling in gaps here and there with all the real work done for them, and in the end they could just employ one or two people in-house to deal... See more ... I didn't buy a CAT to make myself cheaper. If anything, to make myself more expensive. I have a feeling that, at the beginning of all this, CAT bosses were whipping up excitement among agencies, telling them they could use their best translators at first to create the TM, and then send any subsequent stuff to bottom-feeders working for next to nothing, filling in gaps here and there with all the real work done for them, and in the end they could just employ one or two people in-house to deal with the whole shebang.
Now customers usually assume I use a CAT tool, but they don't assume I charge more for it. What I don't want to do is charge less for having gone to the bother of it in the first place.
And I remit to my previous comment in this thread about the very different kettle of fish presented by a TM I have had no hand in creating. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Proven not to be true | Mar 6, 2015 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
I have a feeling that, at the beginning of all this, CAT bosses were whipping up excitement among agencies, telling them they could use their best translators at first to create the TM, and then send any subsequent stuff to bottom-feeders working for next to nothing, filling in gaps here and there with all the real work done for them, and in the end they could just employ one or two people in-house to deal with the whole shebang.
Yes, some people might have thought of this at the dawn of this technology, but reality is that the TM is just a partial, contextualised record of a part of our expertise as our translator.
A TM cannot really embody a translator's expertise, and therefore it cannot replace an expert translator. A good TM always helps a good translator, but cannot turn any translator into an expert in a field. Sensible agencies have understood this very quickly, after a period of trial and errors, and keep using their expensive, expert translators.
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 16:20
Spanish to English
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| Sure, Tomás ... | Mar 6, 2015 |
... but whether they realised it or not, it only took a few years for TMs to fill up with garbage. Or not garbage, simply a load of different translators using different terminology. I had so much trouble with one TM in this regard last year I now give any excuse not to do that particular job. I didn't buy the tool to lose time and money correcting rogue 100%s.
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Mervyn Henderson wrote:
... but whether they realised it or not, it only took a few years for TMs to fill up with garbage. Or not garbage, simply a load of different translators using different terminology. I had so much trouble with one TM in this regard last year I now give any excuse not to do that particular job. I didn't buy the tool to lose time and money correcting rogue 100%s.
Indeed. It is sadly true. I have had this situation with a couple of TMs from trusted customers, and what I agreed with them in the end was that we would completely scrap the previous memory and would build a new one from good materials. The bad memory was costing them a lot of money since I charged them for any time spent fixing bad entries, typos, or blunt mistakes in the TM. Now everybody saves money!
| | | | | Win win situation? | Mar 6, 2015 |
I try to make it a win-win situation. The customer gets more consistency, better quality, faster jobs and I save time to do more within the time I have, as well as passing on some of my savings for documents with a huge amount of repetition, e.g. product descriptions.
But I like it to be my decision and judgement.
| | | | | Bad TMs and end client discounts | Mar 6, 2015 |
For bad TMs, I think that's where having good project managers and good relations with the PMs come in.
Ideally, PMs will manage their TMs well - and not just because the two titles rhyme. Maybe that's an area that needs to be worked on in the industry?
For my part I would have an issue with an agency that consistently had typos in their TMs and if they didn't respond to my concerns about that I don't think we would enjoy a long working relationship together. I understa... See more For bad TMs, I think that's where having good project managers and good relations with the PMs come in.
Ideally, PMs will manage their TMs well - and not just because the two titles rhyme. Maybe that's an area that needs to be worked on in the industry?
For my part I would have an issue with an agency that consistently had typos in their TMs and if they didn't respond to my concerns about that I don't think we would enjoy a long working relationship together. I understand agency-provided TMs to include only final, proofed and approved translations. Often I see ugly translations in TMs I work with but I don't edit them because they've been approved and ultimately I feel its up to the agency to decide what final product they deliver to clients. I have one direct client that consistently makes changes to my translations before publishing them. The most frustrating thing they do is to add spaces before colons. It drives me insane, I've pointed it out to them and they continue to do it. It's frustrating, but at that point it's really their problem, not mine. Their business, not mine.
I can understand if that concept horrifies some people, but that's still my feeling. It's very different to how I approach direct clients or projects completed without a CAT tool.
If there are unacceptable translations in the TM, I'll point them out, but, as with light proofreading, if I just find the translations to be slightly lacking in elegance and I'm only being proposed my proofreading rate, I will only proofread - ie. check terms, spelling and grammar. I wouldn't accept a discount for segments I was having to rewrite. It's not that I don't take ownership of my work in that instance, it's just that ultimately when I'm proofreading I feel it's my proof, not my translation.
As for agencies giving the end client a discount, I know for a fact that some of them do. Some agencies are keen to use CAT tools precisely for that reason: because their end clients are constantly pressuring them to reduce their prices, often for ridiculous reasons (ie. large volumes). Well-managed TMs can offer them a means of reducing the overall price of a translation without compromising on value.
Again, translation is expensive albeit good value. I think it's difficult for end clients to gauage what a reasonable price for translation is and that a large part of the business world is yet to catch on to the fact that scrimping on translation is like scrimping on marketing: a very, very bad idea. Therein lies the problem?
[Edited at 2015-03-06 11:43 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I am sorry I was sarcastic. | Mar 6, 2015 |
Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote: Kenneth Woo wrote:
that many of us seem to buy CAT tools in order to give discounts to translation agencies who have been trying hard to drive our rates down. Do they give discounts to their clients? I guess many don't. I beg to differ - I have never come across a translator who bought CAT tools in order to give discounts. CAT tools are useful for structuring translation work and for drawing on the work you have already done. If you CHOOSE to give discounts due to fuzzy matching and repetitions, that is entirely up to you. But it is not the object of CAT tools as such...
My point was that supposedly, we buy CAT tools with the aim of increasing our productivity and income but the sad reality is that these tools have become grounds for translation agencies to demand discounts for repetitions and many of us give in, even when the rate is very low.
I am not against giving reasonable discounts for fuzzy repetitions if the rate is decent enough but I’ve seen quite a number of frustrated colleagues complain about the world-wide downward trend in rates in other threads so there is really no good reason to give discounts when one’s rate is already a bit low.
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Emma Goldsmith
Spain
Local time: 16:20
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
| Freedom of freelancing | Mar 6, 2015 |
I've followed this thread with interest.
The great thing is that as freelance translators, we are free to decide whether to accept an agency's pricing structure or not. So we can discuss the matter until we're blue in the face here, but then we'll all get back to work, happy that we're not using a CAT tool, or using one and applying our own terms and conditions.
I hope a few people who were blindly accepting agencies' Trados grids as a take it or leave it situation wil... See more I've followed this thread with interest.
The great thing is that as freelance translators, we are free to decide whether to accept an agency's pricing structure or not. So we can discuss the matter until we're blue in the face here, but then we'll all get back to work, happy that we're not using a CAT tool, or using one and applying our own terms and conditions.
I hope a few people who were blindly accepting agencies' Trados grids as a take it or leave it situation will be able to renegotiate their pricing structures, or at least do so in the future.
I was planning on writing a blog post on this topic a while ago, and this thread got me moving, so thanks Robert for bring the subject up again.
http://signsandsymptomsoftranslation.com/2015/03/06/fuzzy-matches/ ▲ Collapse
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