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Does the Blue Board effectively help translators?
Thread poster: Anne Pinaglia
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
OK so.. Apr 23, 2014

... you don't like the proposal. Why not?

 
Giles Watson
Giles Watson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 17:12
Italian to English
In memoriam
It's not the proposal Apr 23, 2014

In principle, I'm in favour of any change that makes more - accurate, relevant - information available to all parties in any transaction.

It's simply that the mechanism you envisage is not watertight. It might be good enough for the stated purpose but there again it might not.


 
Mikhail Kropotov
Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:12
English to Russian
+ ...
Non-payment is an issue but not the only one Apr 23, 2014

Sheila Wilson wrote:
I think it would be a shame to see the BB just used for (non-)payment


I second that. I posited as much yesterday.


 
Preston Decker
Preston Decker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:12
Chinese to English
Another possibility would be anonymous posting Apr 23, 2014

Just brain-storming at this point, but obviously anonymous posting on the Blue Board would be another possibility, and would solve the biggest problem with the Blue Board, which is that agencies can see who gave them poor ratings (and presumably stop sending them work if they give a bad review). The ability to post anonymously could be limited to Proz paying members (freelancers only, no agencies, to avoid unscrupulous agencies posting negative reviews on other agencies' Blue Boards).
... See more
Just brain-storming at this point, but obviously anonymous posting on the Blue Board would be another possibility, and would solve the biggest problem with the Blue Board, which is that agencies can see who gave them poor ratings (and presumably stop sending them work if they give a bad review). The ability to post anonymously could be limited to Proz paying members (freelancers only, no agencies, to avoid unscrupulous agencies posting negative reviews on other agencies' Blue Boards).

This system would be a lot like Yelp's I believe. Interestingly enough, Yelp is dealing with (see links below) an ongoing case regarding its responsibility for anonymous posts made on its platform that unjustly harm the interests of reviewed businesses. I'm sure this is one reason why Proz wouldn't switch to anonymous posting in the immediate future.

http://www.businessinsider.com/hadeed-negative-yelp-reviews-lawsuit-2014-1

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/yelp-drops-ftc-complaints-lawsuit-160020399.html;_ylt=A0SO8xfy91dTNGoAC6FXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByaDNhc2JxBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw--
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Charlie Bavington
Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:12
French to English
Aye, mebbe, mebbe Apr 23, 2014

Giles Watson wrote:

Charlie Bavington wrote:

If the second column is blank, payment still awaited.



... the translator has forgotten to update the post and a good payer has been misrepresented.



I admit I tend to work on the assumption that these discussions are about negative BB entries.

I admit too that I am one of those who tends to lend more weight to the negative BB entries; if I see too many, I scout around elsewhere and see what I can see, and if a firm has an apparently unblemished BB record, especially a lengthy one, I assume they have coerced translators into amending previously negative entries.

Any BB entry is kinda lose-lose for me; if it's bad, I won't work with you, if it's good, I won't trust you. Hence I suspect in the back of my mind is an assumption "BB = trouble", the question is merely what kind of trouble

Tom's right, of course, you could technically set up any configuration of reminders your heart desired, but development work like that just makes the already small chance of any change infinitesimal. So yes, on reflection, for something as important as this, a field of some kind where a user actively confirms non-payment, rather than it being implied, is probably the sensible approach to those who adopt a more even-handed to the BB than me


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Oh, I wouldn't say so Apr 24, 2014

Charlie Bavington wrote:

...........but development work like that just makes the already small chance of any change infinitesimal.....


I don't know about that Charlie. I get the impression that Proz is always conscious of the importance of innovating/refreshing the way the website works, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of changes being made, so long as "change" = "improvement".

In the specific case of the Blue Board I'm sure it hasn't escaped their notice at Proz that there seems to be an undercurrent of dissatisfaction, or rather a conviction that it could be made better.

However you're right about the onerous development work that would be entailed by this; the Proz website and the algorhythms/code that power it must be incredibly complicated. I imagine that making even one small change would be like removing one brick from the wall of a castle. THe whole thing might come crashing down....

[Edited at 2014-04-24 08:53 GMT]


 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:12
Member (2004)
English to Italian
BB's fundamental flaw... Apr 24, 2014

it's clear, isn't it? The criterium is the LWA, or "Likelihood of Working Again". So a 5 or a 4 don't mean much because some colleagues don't mind if an agency pays late or pays little... they are still prepared to work for them, especially if they get a lot of work. The whole system is bent and if radical changes are not introduced, it will stay this way. I agree that more fields are necessary to pin down and clarify the translator-client relationship. In the present state, it's pretty useless.... See more
it's clear, isn't it? The criterium is the LWA, or "Likelihood of Working Again". So a 5 or a 4 don't mean much because some colleagues don't mind if an agency pays late or pays little... they are still prepared to work for them, especially if they get a lot of work. The whole system is bent and if radical changes are not introduced, it will stay this way. I agree that more fields are necessary to pin down and clarify the translator-client relationship. In the present state, it's pretty useless. What's good for you might not be good for me...Collapse


 
Mikhail Kropotov
Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:12
English to Russian
+ ...
Late payment issue is overrated Apr 24, 2014

As much as it may aggravate some peers, I don't penalize customers on the BB purely because of payment delays. My cash flow easily affords me this leniency. What matters is whether the customer is competitive with my other customers. I can easily tolerate a 60-day or even 90-day payment as long as the work goes quickly and the payrate is adequate.

So, Giovanni, you're right. Your measure of a good customer is not the same as mine. It will never be exactly the same for any two given
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As much as it may aggravate some peers, I don't penalize customers on the BB purely because of payment delays. My cash flow easily affords me this leniency. What matters is whether the customer is competitive with my other customers. I can easily tolerate a 60-day or even 90-day payment as long as the work goes quickly and the payrate is adequate.

So, Giovanni, you're right. Your measure of a good customer is not the same as mine. It will never be exactly the same for any two given people. But what on earth ever is?

P.S. Obviously, I've had a few customers who #never# paid. That's very different.
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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:12
Member (2004)
English to Italian
slight confusion... Apr 24, 2014

by late payment, I meant "overdue"... if you agree 60 or 90 days and the client sticks to it, then fine... if he pays late, beyond the agreed date, then I have some beef with it...

 
Mikhail Kropotov
Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:12
English to Russian
+ ...
True, but Apr 24, 2014

To me and to me only, that makes very little difference. I rarely keep track of how late a customer paid. As long as they do eventually.

 
Anne Pinaglia
Anne Pinaglia
Netherlands
Local time: 17:12
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Is Proz hesitant due to agency participation? Apr 24, 2014

Seeing as though the reason why translators join Proz is to connect with agencies/outsourcers (as well as other translators), do you think that Proz is hesitant to revise the Blue Board in fear that said agencies/outsourcers will move to other platforms due to "realistic" feedback? Personally I feel that this is the main reason why the Blue Board has not evolved much.

 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Late OK but never? Apr 24, 2014

Mikhail Kropotov wrote:

To me and to me only, that makes very little difference. I rarely keep track of how late a customer paid. As long as they do eventually.


Late payers are a problem, but the real problem is NON-PAYERS, for which I have found the BlueBoard very useful, 2 or 3 times, used with a little bit of skill, in convincing them that paying me was their best option.


 
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Does the Blue Board effectively help translators?







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